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marshall
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06 Nov 2007, 10:07 pm

Actually I don't see the people on that site being any more fanatical than some of the American "patriots" I've talked to.

The rhetoric is similar in a creepy way. Framing everything as "us" vs "them", Muslims vs "kuffars", "American patriots" vs terrorists. Everyone who doesn't agree with you or has a different religion is not to be trusted and may be one of "the enemy". Then the there's the shared need to glorify conflict and war as something admirable. Also shared is the obsession with defending your own kind while not giving a sh*t about anyone else.

Makes you think.



nominalist
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06 Nov 2007, 10:28 pm

As a college professor, many of my colleagues and friends are Muslims. I seem to meet religious fanatics (of all sorts of religious backgrounds) mostly on the Internet - especially in online chat rooms.


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codarac
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08 Nov 2007, 9:20 pm

You know what? After 9/11 I got sick of reading knee-jerk anti-American articles in the British leftist media, so I started checking out the American media online with all their talk about fighting “Islamo-fascism”. It took me a while to realise that these were just as bad.

I imagine many people in Britain hearing an American endorsing something called Islamo-fascism Awareness Week would conclude that such a person was as “right wing” as it was possible to get.
But actually, “Islamo-fascism” is a liberal fiction. The truth is something even the tough talking American neo-cons don’t want to face.

It is not “Islamo-fascism” that gets people to hijack planes and fly them into buildings, or blow up tube trains. It is not some perversion of Islam. It is Islam itself.

From what I’ve read, “Islamo-fascism awareness” week sounds like it was a pretty liberal affair. This is from the VFR blog (initially quoting FrontPage Magazine):

Quote:
FrontPage Magazine reports:
"We have organized students on over 100 campuses across the country, we are hosting over 30 speakers on subjects like the plight of women in Islam and we are leading the discussion on the danger of Islamo Fascism," David Horowitz said after his speech at the University of Wisconsin Monday night.... "By the end of the week millions of people will have heard our message that we will no longer turn a blind eye to the violence directed against women, gays and 'infidels' in Islamo-Fascist regimens. This homicidal intolerance and the conspiracy of silence that protects it on America's campuses will no longer be accepted."

[David] Horowitz is explicit. Over and over, his statement suggests that the aim of Islamo-Fascism Awareness Week is not, at least primarily, to make Americans more altert to the dangers that Islam, excuse me, Islamo-fascism, poses to us, but to instruct Americans about the dangers that Islamo-fascism poses to women, homosexuals and non-Muslims in the Muslim lands.

Excuse the intrusion of reality here, but what the hell can we do about that? Shall we invade and take over, not just seven Muslim countries as Norman Podhoretz has urged, but all fifty-seven Muslim majority countries, re-engineer their cultures, and make them give up ... Islamo-fascism?


However, it seems there was at least one speaker at one of the recent “Islamo-fascism awareness” conferences who understood the truth. A guy called Greg Davis had this to say:

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“I spoke to the 150 or so crowd for a few minutes by way of introduction. My point--as it has been for some time--is that we must be willing to speak plainly about the thing itself, namely, Islam. Mumbling on about "extremism," "radicalism," "Islamism," etc. only serves to obscure what is really going on. I even had to dissent from the term "Islamo-Fascism," which, while it helpfully indicates the repressive political agenda of the Islamic supremacists, nonetheless gives the impression that we are dealing with a sort of bastard love-child of Sayyid Qutb and Benito Mussolini. The jihadis aren't cutting people's heads off because they are fascists but because they are faithful Muslims acting in accordance with the injunctions of the Quran and the example of Muhammad.”



Last edited by codarac on 09 Nov 2007, 7:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

codarac
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08 Nov 2007, 9:27 pm

Joybob wrote:
Christopher Hitchens wrote an excellent article defending the use of the term 'Islamofascism.


It's well known that Christopher Hitchens is a Trotskyite, and has been since his student days. It makes sense that he's so fond of the term "Islamofascism" since "fascism" is a word leftists use to describe anything they don't like.

By the way, Christopher's brother Peter (a former Trotskyite, now a Conservative) is one of the few mainstream British journalists worth reading IMHO.