Do Extraverted Aspies Have It Rougher?

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Since I've found out about the concepts of introversion and extraversion, I've always considered myself to be fairly introverted because I score 33% or so into the introverted side of the scale on those online MBTI tests. I am beginning to wonder whether that's necessarily accurate, though. I'd classify my sister as a definite extravert; my brother is in between, maybe somewhat introverted much of the time but also quite extraverted at times as well; my dad probably leans a little in the extravert direction; my mom is a definite introvert. I am introverted in the sense that I have few friends (none offline), am not good at smalltalk or nonverbal communication, and enjoy thinking. I like reading Wikipedia and other sources of information sometimes; I absorb new information about my current interests constantly.

On the other hand, I frequently seek external stimulation: eating, walking, anything. The lack of finding good ways to occupy my time has gradually led to a base way of achieving the stimulation: overeating, an addiction. I tend to walk when I talk and find that eating something helps me think more fluidly. I sometimes write somewhat absurd or satirical posts here to fulfill this need too. I find that, if I do have the rare good fortune of making one kind-of friend, I often drive them away by relying on that one person too much to do things with; obviously, if I had several friends, this problem would vanish. I find the easiest way to induce pleasure in myself is through sensual means. All this points to extraverted tendencies in addition to the introverted ones already mentioned.

I would not say I'm very extraverted in comparison to the general population; but, within the population of people with Asperger's syndrome, I am probably on the more extraverted side of things. I think this makes things tougher for me: I'm kind of in limbo between the extremely introverted aspies I meet, who need much less to do than me, and the more extraverted NeuroTypicals, who have developed a social network that allows them to achieve a satisfying level of external stimulation with other people.

I define fully introverted as not needing relationships with other people, and extroverted as needing lots of them. IMO someone can be shy and extroverted at the same time. By this definition, extrovert aspies have it harder because it's so hard for us to form relationships. I am a major extrovert.

Neant, it seems as though you derive a great deal of your energies and stimulation from other people. But I am not so sure whether this is through interaction or whether they are more a source of occupation for you-- helping you spend your time. Perhaps more one-sided than not.

I don't exactly know where that fits into introversion and extroversion. But I'd say your self-assessment is fairly accurate and you are more an extroverted individual than a fair few Aspies.

But this seeking out of constant stimulation might also be rooted in some Attention Deficit problems as well. This is not from personal experience but only from reading, so grain of salt here, but I have heard that ADHDers often get bored easily and require frequent stimulation from their surroundings, whether through people or objects.

Life probably is a lot harder for extroverted aspies. I'd probably be a miserable mess if I didn't get energy from myself, but I'm a textbook introvert. I'm pretty good at making friends when the situation demands it, but I've never relied on them for anything. And with the vast majority of these friends, I have no qualms with moving on and never seeing them again. I don't really get much enjoyment out of being around most people. I'm almost certain now that I just don't feel loneliness.

Last edited by ghotistix on 22 Oct 2005, 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Really the only time I feel loneliness is when I have made a really good friend who I care deeply about and they leave my life.

Perhaps other times a slight hint of barely noticeable loneliness. But other than this I seem to be inordinately content with myself.

Perhaps, but the need for external stimulation is actually the cognitive feature of high extraversion. Apparently, extraverts' brains are more active in some anterior region where the incoming senses are processed; introverts' brains are more active in the frontal lobes, where analysis, planning, and the executive functions occur. This could mean that the hyperactive-impulsive characteristics of ADHD are simply very high extraversion. Extraverts are usually considered to be very social people because they have adapted their need for stimulation into complex forms of social exchange that leave them satisfied. Very high extraverts go to extremes and do such crap as bungee-jumping, skydiving, and other things I'd never even consider.

Not being satisfied with a bland existence is not a disorder. Not everyone is destined to sit on their laurels and let life pass them by or be satisfied if they did. I find the life of classes, homework, eating, and sleeping to be unsatisfying. I would like to escape from it and live a life closer to how I'd like my life to be.

True, but it doesn't exclude a disorder either.

In addition, I do not seek out half as much interaction as you do but I do not live a bland life. I am simply stimulated by different things. My way of living would no doubt be "bland" for you because you receive little from it. But I find I receive poor stimulation in general in constant interaction with people. Or maybe too much negative stimulation. I get more from quiet reverie and study and thought and creating art or poetry.

I only mention ADHD because of what you have mentioned to me and what I have observed of you: consistant stimulation seeking, you say you are bored very easily, you seem to be frequently compulsive, you admit to having a hard time finishing things which you start-- even things you enjoy, and seem to have a hard time sitting many times. I don't mention this to antagonize you. But I have noticed you have difficulty with some of these things. I only say them because I don't find the word "disorder" having a negative connotation for me at all. Merely giving an idea of what one is good at and what one needs work on or needs help with. Actually, I find "disorder" almost admirable and intriguing simply because I love studying them, if that makes any sense.

I am just saying what I have noticed from your behavior and what you have also told me, yourself. It is not to say you should try to be satisfied with something which will not satisfy you. It just might give you an idea as to part of the reason why you are dissatisfied in the first place.

By the standards I think of extroverted behavior, what comes to mind when I think of an extroverted AS person is that they would be forward, outgoing, obsessive, and clueless about social conduct, and thus, annoying to NT and ASD people alike.

I must admit I have nothing to base my theory on yet and the only extroverted ASD person I know, SpaceCase, has a very agreeable personality.

are we confusing extraversion/introversion in the psychological sense with gregariousness here?

Introversion is when you get energy from being alone. Extroverts get their energy from being with other people. I'm an introvert, but can act as an extrovert (and a very annoying one, I've been told) for short periods of time.

Contrary to what some people believe, introverts can be friendly and have friends just as easily as extroverts can. Some of the other stuff with friendships also has to do with the thinking/feeling differences. And the intuitve/sensing differences... basically the rest of the MB type profiles.

I'm an introvert and I feel lonely when there are too many people around me, but no one who I really have a close connection with. I also feel lonely (like Sophist) when close people leave my life or when I leave theirs and don't keep in touch anymore.

That's how I feel. My loneliest times are at work, where I am surrounded by people I have nothing in common with.

As for extraverted Aspies having it rougher, I can't say either way. If you're talking about social contact alone, then yes, extraverted Aspies might have a harder time because of the disconnect between social desires and social skills. If you're talking about just being out in the world (shopping, being at work, etc.) it might be easier. Being in public is a drain for me, even if I'm not interacting with others, because it's not my natural state of being. So in that respect, extraverted Aspies might have an easier time. Does it all balance out in the end? I don't know.

I know many of these things are considered symptomatic of ADHD, but the point is I don't consider them to be a disorder at all. Really, it's not healthy for people to be made to spend their days sitting around in a classroom learning about things they have zero interest in. I believe the disorder is in those who would impose rigid stricture, cold policy, predictability, and correctness over spontaneity, originality, human concern, and flexibility.

I am reminded of my ethics class. Jeremy Bentham tried to make an argument for human beings' happiness being more important than other animals' by suggesting that intellectual pursuits should way more heavily than sensual experiences. The professor demonstrated this intellectual heightening by asking about the choice between Mozart and a commercial jingle. While Mozart in itself may be more pleasant to listen to, the jingle might leave itself wide open for parodying and all kinds of jokes a person talk about with friends after hearing it.

I won't even dignify that with a lengthy answer since I know that's your appraisal of my life, which you've made incredibly clear in past posts and IRL.

But you know the difference between you and me?

1. I AM ACTUALLY HAPPY WITH MY LIFE.

2. I AM IN COLLEGE AND NOT IN DANGER OF LOSING THIS BECAUSE OF ALLOWING MY ANGER TO OVERCOME MY INHIBITIONS.

3. AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, I AM NOT QUITE SO NARCISSISTIC AND ARROGANT TO THINK THAT I HAVE THE COPYRIGHT ON "WORTHWHILE LIFE".

Rebutt whatever you like with that. You always have some excuse.

No, my critique of the ADHD 'disorder' had nothing to do with you. I was actually thinking about some of my professors now and previously, some of the policies here at my university, and some general trends in society. I think the way society is set up does some people a disservice while smoothing the road for other people.

As I have already explained, it wasn't anger that caused me to do what I did with the ketchup incident. It is very hard for me to explain my mental state then as it is at most times. Rumination is continuous and really complicates things because the ruminations themselves are often intricate yet simplistic. I do believe the rumination and depression (among other negative factors affecting my mental health) are the result of disinterest in the existence I currently have.

As for the third point, I have this idea of how I want my life to be, and I do believe many of the obligations (like attending class and doing homework to earn credit hours for my courses) I have are tedious asides. I am really more interested in figuring out how to build my life socially. After all, I can learn, college or not. I would be happier if I had a girlfriend, a car (so that I have some independence and can go places), a good job, a few friends, etc.

I don't generally make it a point to go around laying insults at people's feet—whether they are subtle or not. Yes, maybe I should have considered that you might have taken those words as an attack on you; but, since that wasn't my intention, the thought did not pass through my mind when I wrote them.

It is more I am feeling I am being boxed in and constrained to a life without the things I enjoy (random humor, a leisurely approach to life without an emphasis on achievement necessarily, pleasure).