False Dichotomy

Post Reply New Topic

That's exactly right, Remnant. I'll use another example - Al Queda. Now we are all judging them on 9/11, and ONLY 9/11. Now whilst it's true that the attack was taking matters way too far, what are we doing about the reasons behind the attack? What are we doing to allay their fears (no matter how unreasonable or irrational they may be in places) and deprive them of a reason to be that way? Nothing. We're concentrating on preventing the actions in whatever means those in power deem required. That will not solve the problem.

The Black Panthers did have one positive - they exposed the KKK to the general population and they got them angry. Maybe they were careless about it - granted. But they did what they wanted to do, and it played it's part in silencing the white extremists. The Black Panthers were (in their own way) martyrs for the cause.

Aggression - when placed correctly - can be very effective. Or assertiveness if you like. It's just a question of having the courage to fight to begin with. And be prepared to hurt people (I don't mean physically) who are part of the problem. It's called punishment for wrong doing. And there is certainly nothing wrong with doing that in numbers - when those numbers include the police and/or the court system. If a person has done the wrong thing and it hurts you, fight back - and the right way. And don't do it alone, because that's impossible. I used to do that, and I got my tail kicked for it. The system is there for a reason, and it should be used to the max. Don't be a lone vigilante - there will always be a group waiting to fire back. That's why it took so long for blacks to fight back, because they acted like lone wolves and the KKK had numbers to fight back. It got very messy, and the battle with Al Queda is heading the same way.

So the key to it all is to understand why the angst is there, and deal with that. It will avoid all the consequent problems. That's why I'm trying to start the enquiry here in Australia into the issue of adults on the Spectrum - to provide a forum for the angst and to achieve understanding. It can only work of course if we have as many different views and experiences as possible. Just one (mine to begin with) will not be enough.

Joeker, I think you are lucky in a way. You were diagnosed early and you figured out how to deal with it. I wish that happened to me but I was already 25 when I learned about AS, before that I had no idea what was going on.

The AS thinking style is distinctly different from the NT style and it is hard for some people with AS to just take on a thinking style they dont understand.

I am glad that you have found a solution for yourself, but other people I think would prefer a solution which honours the AS style of doing things instead of suggesting it is wrong. Not that you are saying it is, but there is a lot of messages out there that AS people are receiving telling us that we are wrong, can you see why some AS people would get defensive about it all?

I watch the green indicators of unread posts when I'm logged in. Just because you happen to be there is nothing more than a coincidence. And you didn't address the point I made earlier about you watching me some time ago. How about you do what I did and ignore it?



This is an extension of your paranoia, and is misrepresentative of my position. Again - I request an apology, especially for being labelled "stark raving mad".

TLPG, to an extent violence against persons justifies a violent response. There is a limit to this. I don't go around clubbing NTs in the head. I could justify that from my own bad experiences but that would also demonstrate an inability to see better solutions. I effing AM the better solution. Gentle, orderly, consistent ways to get the right things done, to continually improve human judgment, to help people see the light, these have always been going on, almost invisibly, and humans have made progress.

I talked about this tomorrow. It's interesting that you say that. This morning, it wasn't a discussion about autism, but a discussion about morals of humans and what can be considered as a moral and what is not. So on a totally unrelated note (is it really?), it leads to deep questions.

No need to read, really, but I just figured I'd write as well, because I can't it out of my head since this morning.

I mentioned that good and moral and peaceful intentions can cause an action that is evil and violence, whereas a bad intention may just as well result in a good action that affects others in a throughout positive way. Usually, people judge the action because it's hard to learn about the intention, if not, in some cases, impossible. Personally, I don't like it. Maybe because I did grow up with so many actions around me not making sense to the eye and because I still have a much greater understanding of any kind of theoretical approach, although I can't do the same

But personally, if there is a choice possible and available, then I don't want anything good to happen from something as bad as hate. Maybe violence is easier to understand and can be judged easier, but hate can be very powerful and an invisible and uncontrollable opponent. I don't find beauty in something that really is ravishing beautiful but was created from hate and anger. In the end, it may be still most useful, but that's not to say it being useful means it's 'good' and should be followed suit.

In my personal opinion a position already looses it's legitimacy when they are based on what is something like hate or dislike. It would be 'I want to make the world a better place because I truley hate it' against 'I want to make the world a better place because I truley believe that there is enough good to make it better'.

But it's a philosophical question, okay. It's the question whether the man that killed and regrets and the man that wants to kill badly but has stern self-control is the better out of the two, if there is better or worse existing. What counts, the intention or the action?

It's also the problem that the death of a child based on good intentions is just that: a death, irreversible and final. But then I'm back to my other post, fighting evil (outcome) with evil (intention) and thinking it's for a good cause is hypocrisy. Fighting evil with evil and knowing it's all horrible and evil and accepting this, that's better I think, because it's being true at least and less dangerous.

I might as well ask my philosophy teacher about it, even though she's a teacher, she's just... like a professor of kinds. Maybe she can give me an interesting thought on this.

Edit: Ah, I'm bad with this. I totally forgot:
Thank you for reading my post (and liking it) Joeker! It makes me happy when people are reading my ideas! The compliment goes right back actually, your posts are always an awesome read when it comes to the train of thought and of course the content is good too.

Just think about this for a minute though, Remnant. What do you do when the violence continues unabated. Think for example the Israeli/Palestine conflict - they've been trying your method (which in theory is fine but it generally doesn't work in practice) and the good people end up assasinated by extremists. And even speaking for myself there are people who that sort of tactic just doesn't work. Some people just will not learn.

My preferred method is to use the legal system - provided of course I even have a case. It works. There was one idiot who stalked me on the Internet for two years, and the only way to stop him was to take out a restraining order. It got him - and I got plaudits for it because even though I was getting the worst of him he was giving other people trouble as well.

There's another one who persistently slanders me. He does it to other people as well - but he hides is contact details very effectively so I can't serve the moron! He's in IT and he knows what he is doing. Extremely frustrating!

Sora: You're welcome, and thanks, Sora. I'm glad that we understand each other so well.
A bit of a tip though, I reccomend that you not continue reading this one... It's gotten fairly personal. Besides, most of the points I make and the content will be really confusing if you don't know the background...


TLPG: Very well then.

Misrepresented? No, I think I got the nail on the head. You see, you haven't just done it to one or two people. There's lots of them.
Droopy. Rossc. JennaP. Wilky. John Best. Phlexor. Selo. I2. ED. Uncyclopedia. Myself.

Need I continue?

You are, in my eyes, stark raving mad. Going to what Sora wrote, I agree completely. You are fighting for good, by doing evil, and deluding yourself into reasoning that because it is being done for good, the evils of your actions are forgiven. That is not the way things work. That is why the Black Panthers were a racist group along with the KKK they hated; They used the same methods, and the best intentions in the world make no difference to the wrong actions. What is so wrong with the methods used by the anti-cure movement? Their promotion of understanding, their positive efforts, their respectful attitudes towards those who disagree?

You're insulting, demeaning, harassing, defaming, and libelling people for some vaunted goal of attaining the equality you assume we're denied. You're attacking autistics to keep them from stating what they think, because you think they harm the image of autistics by doing so, when you harm that image by nailing people onto it. You've got a blog dedicated to attacking those on the spectrum who you feel aren't worthy of it, you have a wiki with countless pages about a blogger, you have four pages dedicated to a "war" with me, and you join sites to twist their views on Autism to your liking. Uncyclopedia for instance. I know how you write, and if that's not you, then Australia has perfected human cloning. You can hardly deny it, and obviously, you haven't stomped on someone's neck hard enough, for them to have sent me that link.

Do you feel any guilt, or are you so convinced that what you're doing is right that you cannot even see the callousness and hatred in your actions? Does it make you feel like a hero? Does it make you feel strong? Does it make you feel powerful? LFAs, parents of autistic children, adult Aspies, teens and parody sites, those are who you fight. You chose your targets wrong, if it's autistic rights you're promoting through your little war.

Aspergian Island banned you. You're laying low on AFF. You no longer allow replies on your blogs. You're trying to draw me into an argument, so that you can run to a moderator, and have me banned for what I'm saying to you.

You always were pretty sly, but you're terrible at acting innocent.

The above post contains a great number of lies and should be ignored.

Thank you.

Last edited by TLPG on 21 Feb 2008, 4:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The above post is inaccurate, and it is fact that TLPG has libelled, demeaned, insulted, harassed, and defamed people. One link will show it all, in fact.

http://asdhating.blogspot.com/

these people, who evidently hate ASDs, and attempt to prevent understanding, are far from it.

Intensity Squared(AKA: I2), is a forum for those with ASDs, to speak out and use the right to free speech. It includes an advocacy board, with examples of people's efforts, and promotes free speech. The problem you have is that it's not the free speech you want to hear.

Srinath is an autistic who posts on a pro-cure blog. You take their words, and use it to drag them over coals for their opinions.

Selo is a member of WP, and stated her opinion. You then took her opinion, and used it to call her a suck up, ignorant, and you gave her "both barrels," and that she was a dangerous person, her views had to be nipped in the bud, and you ended off by calling her an idiot. Not to mention being a teenager, and you a fully grown man.

On Aspergian Island, you engaged Phlexor in an argument, and the thread was locked. After the thread was unlocked and discussion continued, you acted in such a way that the Moderators banned you. I don't know their reasons, but that they had reason enough to do so speaks volumes.

Me. You sent a group of people, more than half a dozen, to my blog, with an express purpose to harass me. They were trying to coerce me into being silent, to shut me up. One of them tried to get me to kill myself. You drove a conflict, and are threatening me with legal action if I should step out of line towards you. You contacted my ISP to have them cut me off. You contacted my goverment, to have me committed, telling them I was a danger to myself and others. You PMed people to tell them I was crazy.

Of course you want the post I made deleted; But not because they're lies.