People Trying to Convert you

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You did not respond to the social welfare funding point? and how about the report that GWB thinks that ahteists should not be regarded as citizens and patriots (yes I do understand that this was in an unrecorded interview so its voracity can be quesioned). also the abortion debate in the USA, from where I sit it certainly has a religious flavour to the prolife camp, and from what I can see the feds are helping reverse Wade vs Roe. Here in Australia the gay marriage debacle where a territory had its common union laws overturned by the Feds who were openely arguing on a religious basis. The senior catholic in this country openly told catholic memebers of parliament that they risked excommunication if they voted in favour of stem cell research, the government let him get away with it with hardly a wagged finger.

Yes I know things were far worse in previous centuries, IMO the state church divide was really strong in the 70's and that is begining to be eroded.

GWB is a moron and that is almost universally recognized. I don't much care what he thinks, if he does so at all. As far as the social welfare funding, many churches are actually upset about that because the rule is that if they're using government money to help feed the poor or whatever, they can't preach to them.


That's largely what I was referring to with politicians paying lip-service to the fundies but not actually acting on their wishes. Until 2006, the Republican party had control of all three branches of the federal government and did nothing to overturn Roe v Wade. Abortion will remain legal. As far as whether or not it is right for abortion to be legal, that is just a game of definitions. Pick your definitions and the correct answer becomes self-evident.


Gay marriage will be allowed and accepted, it is just a matter of time. My own denomination does not recognize same-sex marriage (though, oddly enough, we do allow gay ministers) but I personally am not interested in making the rest of society obey the rules of my religion, especially when I can hardly follow them myself.


I wasn't around back then, so I wouldn't know. I can only say that the world I live in is pretty secular, and religion does not seem to be part of most people's everyday lives.

I think we need to agree to disagree on this one. Perspective is an interesting thing, you are religious and see a robust secular society, I am strongly agnostic (cant disprove god so I cant be totally atheist) and see the influence of the church everywhere.

I had a woman in the mall asked me if I chose Jesus as my persnal Savior,
I had a woman at work, who on hearing me talk with someone on varioes science topocs gave me a pamplet and said, this proves he exists.(I believe in God, but I am offended in that she thinks me being into science = athesist. That what ever I believed in, my faith was so waek that a pamplet would change me, and that was basically intruding on my conversation)
At my sisters funeral, the priest asked my dad if I was a Cathlic instead of asking me.
Witnesses appearing at my door every once in a while.

I know this thread mainly refers to religion, but I think the whole conversion thing applies equally to politics. I got to thinking about areas where I am evangelical, and since I have no religion, it's alway my politics that I try to convert people to. Politics seems a little more grounded in the real world than religion, so I feel that a real debate is possible, and for me at least, enjoyable. Being of libertarian leanings, I particularly like poking holes in the left, though I'm an equal opportunity offender if the right gets out of line too. I tend to think that while the right wing can be pretty odious, they are a bit less hypocritical about it. They come right out and tell you what they are about, the left will support something up to when it helps someone who disagrees with them, then throw a hissy fit. A good example would be the people who go to such great lengths defending freedom of speech, only to try to shout down those who disagree with them on something else, like what happened with Ward Connerly on affirmative action. Perhaps it's naive of me, but I always try to fight political ignorance when I see it, and online it's not just the person I'm debating, but the people who follow the debate that I play to.

I also tend to preach on tipping service people, since I work in that industry, but that is more of a carrot and stick sort of thing. I can tell you what happens to people's food who consistently don't tip in restaurants, it's not pretty... On the flip side, people who tip well are remembered, and do get preferential treatment out of it. It's your call...

You're wrong on that point. What has happened is that "faith-based charities" are now eligible for government grants in addition to non-religious groups, which were already eligible. However, I do believe that there is discrimination within the "faith-based" category. The non-religious groups still get funding from the US government.

Yes, I suppose that's true. Reminds me of how, in the US, the Republicans and Democrats both have these bizarre delusions of persecutions- Dems whine about the "corporate media" while Repubs despise the "liberal media," etc. Still, I would say that, whatever the influence of religion, it has probably lessened over time and will quite possibly continue to do so.

Cant argue with the first part of that statement, cos no-has burnt me at the stake.