Why do religions try and take credit for morals?
twoshots wrote:
z0rp wrote:
Any knowledgeable individual knows that morals are derived from the environment you grow up in. Period.
You have an amazing capacity to convert your beliefs into obvious truths, z0rp. In fact, many people (read: evolutionary psychologists) think that morals are, to a significant degree (though not entirely), due to evolution. Which is environment in a manner of speaking, I suppose, although your intention is ambiguous.
Furthermore, we may have a natural history of morals without a theory of morality, just as political philosophy addresses the essence of the state without necessarily regarding the history of the state.
If you're raised somewhere where you're brought up to kill, fight and rape people daily I think you're going to end up doing that, just as the people around you do, because that's how you learn. (yes I'm aware that's a horrible example) The human infant is designed to learn from it's surroundings, of course some things are instinct but the "Should I do or not do this" is basically learned, not automatically instinctual. I'm not saying however that functions similar to what we'd consider morals aren't beneficial to animals and we may even still carry some of these genes, but I'm fairly convinced that our human morals are learned though your surroundings, not instinctual.
As I said, this is not the consensus among evolutionary psychologists. While there is great variability among possible moralities, the essential underpinnings are thought to be due to evolutionary pressures on the psychology of humans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality#E ... rspectives
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z0rp wrote:
If you're raised somewhere where you're brought up to kill, fight and rape people daily I think you're going to end up doing that, just as the people around you do, because that's how you learn. (yes I'm aware that's a horrible example) The human infant is designed to learn from it's surroundings, of course some things are instinct but the "Should I do or not do this" is basically learned, not automatically instinctual. I'm not saying however that functions similar to what we'd consider morals aren't beneficial to animals and we may even still carry some of these genes, but I'm fairly convinced that our human morals are learned though your surroundings, not instinctual.
But there will always be rebels.. who choose to think in a different way..
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"What is a rebel? Someone who says no; but whose refusal does not imply a renunciation. He is also a man who says yes as soon as he begins to think for himself. A slave who has taken orders all his life, suddenly decides that he cannot obey some new command. What does he mean by saying `no'?
He means, for instance, that `this has been going too far', or again
`There are certain limits beyond which you shall not go.' In other words, his `no' affirms the existence of a borderline. You find the same conception in the rebel's opinion that the other person is `exaggerating', that he is exerting his authority beyond a limit where he infringes on the rights of others. He rebels because he catergorically refuses to submit to conditions that he considers intolerable and also because in his own mind he thinks that he `has the right to...'. Rebellion cannot exist without the feeling that somewhere, in some way, you are justified. It is in this way the rebel slave says yes and no at the same time. He affirms that
there are limits and also that he suspects - and wishes to preserve - the existence of certain things beyond those limits. He stubbornly insists that there are certain things in him which `are worth while...' and which must be taken into consideration.
In every act of rebellion, the man concerned experiences not only a feeling of revulsion at the infringment of his rights but also a complete and spontaneous loyalty to certain aspects of himself. Thus he implicitly brings into play a standard of values so far from being false that he is willing to preserve them at all costs. Up to this point he has, at least, kept quiet and in despair, has accepted a condition to which he submits even though he considers it unjust. To keep quiet is to allow yourself to believe that you have no option, that you want nothing, and in certain cases it amounts to really wanting nothing. But from the moment the rebel
finds his voice - even though he has nothing to say but "No" - he begins to consider things in particular. He choose what is preferable to what is not. Not every value leads to rebellion, but every rebellion tacitly invokes a value. Or is it really a question of values?
An awakening of conscience, no matter how confused it may be, develops from any act of rebellion and is represented by the sudden realization that something exists with which the rebel can identify himself - even for a moment. Up to now this identification was never fully realized. Previous to his insurrection he accepted all the demands made upon him. He even very often took orders, without reacting against them, which were considerably offensive to him. He was patient and though, perhaps, he protested inwardly, he was obviously more careful of his own immediate interests - in that he kept quiet - than aware of his own rights. The act of rebellion carries him beyond the point he reached by simply refusing. He exceeds the bounds that he established for his antagonist and demands that he should now be treated as an equal. What was originally, an obstinate resistance on the part of the rebel, becomes the rebel personified. He proceeds to put self-respect above everything else and proclaims that it is preferable to life itself. It becomes, for him, the supreme blessing. Having previously been willing to compromise, the "slave" suddenly adopts an attitude of All or Nothing. Knowledge is born and conscience awakened. Better to die on one's feet than live on one's knees."
Albert Camus
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z0rp wrote:
The human infant is designed to learn from it's surroundings, of course some things are instinct but the "Should I do or not do this" is basically learned, not automatically instinctual. I'm not saying however that functions similar to what we'd consider morals aren't beneficial to animals and we may even still carry some of these genes, but I'm fairly convinced that our human morals are learned though your surroundings, not instinctual.
Guess what? Skinner was wrong, and so are you. If these claims of yours are true, then basic levels of morality would not be culturally universal, but they are.
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WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH
