The horrors of a Palin presidency

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I think where all this comes from, we literally aren't living in the same reality - maybe the same physical world but what we give salience to seems to be completely different as well as how we have our truths and mistruths chosen and have constructed reality from that point on.

The first thing I can say, related to the Palin 'gaffs'

1). Boarder with Russia and Canada = foreign policy experience - yes, its a stretch; could be worse, we've had other presidents who have come in to the white house from either governorship or no foreign policy experience (Teddy Roosevelt and Harry Truman for example). This is NOT however something that Obama want's to wield as he's living in a glass house.

2). "I read a lot of things" - this question is a trap, a lot like "Do you agree with the Bush Doctrine?". Its nobody's business who's paper she reads from, no one really asks anyone this sort of question unless they want to string them up on either any little misstep or, even if she said LA Time, New York Times, Washingon Tribune, if she said anything about National Review or Townhall Magazine it could have gone on in some really weird ways; pretty much if she didn't read only papers in the flow with Couric's agenda - she'd be trapped in deeper quicksand.

3) Couldn't think of the word "Mocking" - she studdered, drew inference, and yes - it wasn't the most polished thing in the world and yes; the conservatives who are fearing her are doing so, not because of her stances, its because liberals can get away with ANYTHING while republicans, so much as stutter and your a buffoon.

Of course I'm not sure how you want to compare these along side it:

Obama:
*Apparently there are 57 states..including one more he still hadn't been to.

*10,000 people died in the May 2007 Kansas tornado (9,988 above city statistics)

*People in the mid west cling to their guns and bibles - beautiful

*Iran is a tiny country that doesn't pose a serious threat

Biden (comparing apples to apples here):

*Hillary might have been a better choice

*Barrack is the first clean and articulate black political figure

*Asked Chuck Graham (parapalegic in wheelchair) to stand up

*Pay higher taxes - be patriotic

most famous and recently

*FDR got on TV during the stock market crash of 1929 as President and comforted the people.


I'm not trying to trash Obama and Biden with this but what I really don't understand is how when Obama and Biden slip (even when Obama mentioned his 'muslim' faith) - people gave the benefit of the doubt and joked about it a little but let it go.

On the other hand, if McCain has the slightest slip up - he's senile, needs to be put out to pasture, and is a terrible national security thread just because its certain evidence that his coherence and gumption are gone. When Palin makes a gaff or even gets a little choppy - she's an armbiter psycho christian.

To call it that its republicans throwing the spin harder - is either farse hypocrisy or, just signs that we literally don't live in the same objective worlds.




When I read this I really just want to say nothing as if to say "think...." but I know that, as we live in much different realities here, its not really helpful.

Hijacking threads? I've left a lot of these threads alone, for a long time really tried not to read them, but I've also noticed that - the liberal lean around here is so thick that, not only does it get carried right off the rail and unbelievably crass but, there's most often no legitimate challenge to the thoughts or ad hominem being presented - not from the few conservatives and definitely not much in the way of quality control by the liberals themselves. Anymore if a threads just too much of a joke I won't respond, if it reports something to be true that has causal reality thrown out the window though - I do need to speak my peace just to bring it into focus a bit.

As for admitting opinions that aren't their own - I'm not sure if you really meant to phrase it that way because it doesn't make sense as such. Admitting to an argument when its one thats ultimately better thought through and has more objective anchors in reality - if someone can shut me up with the facts or at least starts heading out on grounds that I'm not 100% clear on, I'll research it because I want to know if their right or if I'm right; if their right I'd rather know it and sit back to figure out what that ultimately means about my take as I care more about the ultimate truth of things rather than whether what I have construed in the end is either liberal or conservatives. The reason I am conservative though, as far as I can tell, either liberals don't have the same strength in their arguments and are far more emotion than logic or - alternatively - I meet nothing but the wrong liberals and would like to meet more who could show me the light.

That and if our heroes are looking like dottering idiots; its because Obama and Biden can make twice or three times the mistakes, stutter for minutes on end if they wanted to; they can do no wrong, no one seems to care what they do.


BTW jul, I'm not trying to be incendiary with you here, just trying to point out that this sort of post is both out of like, really pure emotion, but while I can't tell you how to gauge reality I can tell you that posts like this really don't work - not for debates, not for show of intellect either.

Actually, I have voiced opposition to Palin in other threads. I refuted criticism of her policies on the handicapped because I thought they were unfair - it is wrong to say that she is clearly for or against spending on government services for the handicapped, the ADA, or other related issues. She hasn't taken a real stand either way.

On the other hand, the fact that Wasilla required rape victims to pay for the evidence kits for a criminal investigation indicates that she is not so sympatico, to say the least. Stating that she would personally counsel a rape victim to carry the rapist's child is also a bit peculiar to me - creates an incentive to commit that violent crime.

If you see the video, it is pretty clear that he got arithmetically challenged - he started by saying he went to all 50 states, then said, wait, not 3, 50 minus 3 makes 57. A gaff, but an indication of speaking too fast.



Yes, a gaff.



Not necessarily the optimistic thing a politician should say, but the original quote was true enough:

"And it's not surprising then that they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."

Do you deny that anti-immigrant sentiment is tied to the overall condition of the economy? Plenty of historical evidence that it rises sharply when the economy dips. Did the bitter people across the south not cling to (and loudly embrace) their religion as a justification for segregation in the 1960s? Did we not see an increase in both attendance in segregated churches and lynchings and shootings when the south was forced to end Jim Crow?

Sure, if you want to interpret his statement as meaning all religion and gun ownership are the province only of bitter people, then by all means, get offended. I consider myself religious and own several firearms, and don't feel that those comments were directed at me.



Given that Israel has around 400 nuclear weapons, the U.S. has around 19,000, and Iran has zero, it is safe to say that a credible deterrence is in place. Retired US General John Abizaid said the US and its allies can "live with" a nuclear-armed Iran, but they should continue pressuring the Islamic Republic to keep it from developing an atomic bomb.

Its not that I'm offended by that, or by how he talks to middle America (puts on the hick accent) and then disses middle America in major cities. I don't see the point in taking offense.

The reason I bring up all these gaffs is that when Biden and Obama are full of them, but if McCain or Palin aren't silky smooth the sky is falling - I'm just trying to point out the fallacy of the media coverage as well as a lot of the dialog about the gaff's Palin has made about her being this arm-biting haldol case; if a few slips of the tongue or episodes of poor wording means that she likely cuts herself with a razor in the bathroom; one can't hold that standard up to her (or McCain as senile and gone) and yet give everyone else a pass. That's the only thing I'm getting at here.



The biggest fear we have with regard to a nuclear Iran is a middle-east arms race. If that happened, pretty much every Sunni state would be arming themselves to the teeth in case Iran (Shiite) decided to hit them, Israel would be in dire straits, and of course our concern - just like the Asian doctor who was head of the whole plot earlier in the decade to black market nuclear arms to the highest bidder; that's really our concern. They could blow themselves up and, since we'd have no idea on their proliferation policies or lack thereof, there's the idea of something coming in to New York, L.A., and wiping a major city off the map - which would be not only a horrific loss of life but, as our economy is built so much on the lemming behavior of stock market investors and yes, consumer spending, the world economy would have so many circuits hissing and popping that we'd be brought into a world like we've never known most likely. Our current situation with Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, AIG, just goes to show how credit is globalized at this point and how particularly true the saying is that when the United States sneezes the world catches a cold; it wouldn't just screw us over - it would hit everyone.

Victor Mordacai had a bit more gentle of a philosophy - Israel strikes Iran, Iran retaliates by attacking all of its own oil infrastructure as well as anything in the local waters and Saudi assets, this of course ends up causing a complete seizure of economic activity in places like Japan, China, anyone who's almost exclusively supplied on middle east oil, and within weeks the nations of the world are knocking on the doors of the U.S. begging the U.S. to take action against Iran - it would be a global coalition and the first time we ever had world wide support to clean up a mess. I don't know if things would go exactly ad he predicted but still, you'd hate to think that further damages outside of that could occur - that picture is bad enough for plenty of people in plenty of countries.

Ok - point taken. But what about McCain's statement last monday that the economy is fundamentally sound? Was that a gaff? Or was that really his opinion?

He later said that he meant to say "The working men and women of America what make up the US economy; the workers here are hardworking and productive; therefore the economy (workers) are fundamentally sound." Is that an example of straight talk? The election hangs on that Monday statement, IMO. It wasn't a gaff - McCain showed serious policy and character shortcomings.

Palin: after this unknown was appointed to the #2 spot on the ticket, she went into media seclusion for weeks where she only gave the same stump speech everyday, while she crammed like a school kid on the bus. Then she does venture out to give a few interviews and does rather poorly. Really - what are we to think? I don't see here as a haldol case - she is simply out of her league and trying to cover. If people press for specifics in a way that tests her depth, she can only evade. Her unfavorable rating now outweighs her favorable among women, and it isn't based on the fact that she couldn't rattle off the basics of the Bush doctrine.

Her latest addition to the stump speech is that 'she heard Biden's speeches since when she was in second grade.' Aside from raising the age issue (on which McCain suffers), it is pretty clear that she wasn't listening to Biden's speeches at any age, with the exception of the past month. She couldn't name a Supreme Court case other than Rove v. Wade, and she can't (or won't) tell us what she reads or where she gets her news. And again, given very little information, I personally suspect that she gets most of her news from the 700 club or Rush Limbaugh.... I know that Alaska has radio, TV, and even Tivo. But I suspect she will do well in the debate tonight, as she can deliver a persuasive folksy vision speech if she is given the space and not grilled about specifics.

A growing list of conservatives think she is an embarrassment. There are liberals who think Joe Biden is not liberal enough, but most think that is qualified to assume the highest office.

I'm hearing rumors that Palin is a Dominionist christian. If this is true, it would be the end of civilization as we know it, if she ever got her hands on nuclear missle launch codes!! !

From what I heard, Palin is staunchly anti-abortion, and opposes exceptions for victims of rape and incest, which personally speaks volumes to me about what she's like.

Just remember that for however dumb Palin is, we've had dumber in the White House already...

George W. Bush may not be the sharpest tool in the shed, but he's still in the shed.

I'm so glad people here have spoken out against Palin. Don't know if I can improve upon them, but I'll throw in my two cents. You know, Tech, all I said was you have to just watch Palin's interviews to get an idea of her preparedness. America did, look at the poll numbers. Those could change, but America was definitely watching her, as they will be tonight, and America responded by saying she is not ready. I agree she'll probably do all right up there tonight because she's been grilled for the past week and she has all her quips on 3x5 cards ready.

But comparing Obama's speeches to Palin's interviews is a joke; there is no comparison there. Anybody is going to make a few missteps on a grueling campaign schedule as Obama and Biden have, but Palin only had to be coherent to convince people she was okay. She simply was not even coherent. You're writing a list of small gaffes -- Obama said 57 instead of 47, oh so what. But those happened over the past year, just about. Long time. But what Palin did in her single interview with couric was lose track of the entire sense of a sentence. If she had stopped herself and started over she would have made a better impression, but I don't think she realized how bad she sounded, and that is a danger sign too, not to mention her style of governance in Alaska and her belief system. Small town folksy holdin on to guns and religion? Well, now, there you go.

I don't think it is a rumor. If you look on the webpages of her churches, you will find they are tied into the Dominionist movement.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2008/8/29 ... 495/579213

dunno about that. we're going from a dummy who was at least around smart people at yale to a dummy who was in the middle of nowhere idaho for her education experience. idaho has racists and mormons...not exactly the brightest groups.


and also spent a semester in hawaii (bet lots of learnin' went on out there).

The Horrors of a Palin Presidency:

Bills that will help the disabled will be vetoed over & over again

Female NRA membership will increase 65%

All the borders will be closed off, literally, to the point
where the US turns into the new China

Planned Parenthood will be forced to shut down shop

2/3 of all American jobs will be outsourced

Roe V. Wade will be forcefully overturned

Muslims will be forced into concentration camps,
similar to how Japanese were in concentration camps during WWII.

All prescription refills will need personal ID and
a social security number to be satisfied.

K-12 education will turn into a "One Size Fits All" approach.
3/5 of all high school students will not graduate.
College loans will continue to increase dramatically
to the point where they cannot be paid back.

Anarchic groups will increase.
They will make their presense known through newspapers,
radio, TV, and other media.

I agree with him, the fundamentals of the economy are sound. I'm not parsing words in saying this, an actual - as separate capitalist economy, is the economy; I don't count government programs mandating that the bar be lowered on credit as being natural ethics of any economy. That said, I didn't even need that explanation from McCain because this is a congressional and legal problem, not an economically caused one. Unemployment is still less than 6%, people are still very much willing to work, invest in themselves, open businesses, that is the fundamental basis of our economy.



I have no idea what's going on with her Couric answers. I know that she doesn't have literal foreign policy experience, she's a governor and that's really not usually something governors are picked for but rather their management ability. Whether she had or hadn't heard Biden's speeches in 2nd grade; not sure what it means, he's been wrong so often on so many things that I find it doubtful one could even hold a democrat to show signs in their own policy and thinking to indicate that they heard Biden; he doesn't really make that much of an impression on most people; as for the age logistics; she's 44, would have been 8 years old back in 1972 - Biden was elected to Senate in 1972 so, in physical reatlity, its entirely possible that she did.

On the charges that because she wouldn't answer the question literally means that she's strictly reading porno for neocons or religious zealots; even if she hypothetically reads NY Times, LA Times, Washington Post, she still would not want to answer that question. If she did, even with many center-left leaning publications, Couric would have been blasting her further "So what is your opinion of x article?" "If your so well informed and read x paper, why don't you agree with their platform? Where do you get your politics from?" and she'd go on and on cherrypicking articles - in ways that no one could answer unless they read all of the above every day cover to cover; if she has other persuits that's fine as long as she's staying informed, the rest is - certain people giving it their all to make her look stupid.

That said yes, seeing her after the RNC speech, at least in her public discourse, she hasn't been nearly as crisp as I'd hoped (I was hoping she'd have more of Dr. Rice's type of mannerisms and ways of dealing with BS) but at this point; I'll really have to watch the debates tonight and see what's going on - if she flops, people will know that yes; McCain made a gamble, it was ballsy, but it backfired.




Its because conservatives know that its a witch hunt out there and that yes, your polish - if your conservative - has to be almost perfect. That's where she's ultimately failing them.