Page 3 of 3 [ 42 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

02 Dec 2008, 6:06 pm

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Do we have a "rights tax" now that you have to pay before being granted your natural rights?



yeah, it's called income tax.

Not really. What if you have no income? And failure to pay taxes has never caused anyone to forfeit their Constitutional rights. But anyways, religious leaders do pay income tax, so even by your reasoning they should be permitted to express their opinions on political matters. Frankly, the fact that we're even discussing whether a certain group is allowed to have an opinion is frightening.


it's frightening because i'm an atheist who is facing more and more of a threat from a more and more theocratic government. i'm only fighting the obvious problems. conditioning people to accept the country as a theistic government is a big problem for me and for anyone who doesn't fall under the accepted judeo-christian umbrella.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

02 Dec 2008, 6:16 pm

skafather84 wrote:
it's frightening because i'm an atheist who is facing more and more of a threat from a more and more theocratic government. i'm only fighting the obvious problems. conditioning people to accept the country as a theistic government is a big problem for me and for anyone who doesn't fall under the accepted judeo-christian umbrella.

skafather, you are delusional. You are not being threatened, and the government is not getting "more and more theocratic." The secular principle is thriving in American civil society and is only likely to strengthen as time goes on. The biggest grievance you have is 3 syllables in the Pledge of Allegiance, which is only recited by schoolchildren? You're pretty well off, then. The courts consistently rule in favor of secular principles and show no indication that they will deviate from that pattern in the foreseeable future.

I grow tired of the delusions of persecution on both sides. Republicans and Democrats both think they are being oppressed by the other, and it seems the same is true of Christians and atheists. Look, the reality is that in America, your freedom of conscience is quite secure, and always will be. Relax.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

02 Dec 2008, 7:22 pm

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
it's frightening because i'm an atheist who is facing more and more of a threat from a more and more theocratic government. i'm only fighting the obvious problems. conditioning people to accept the country as a theistic government is a big problem for me and for anyone who doesn't fall under the accepted judeo-christian umbrella.

skafather, you are delusional. You are not being threatened, and the government is not getting "more and more theocratic." The secular principle is thriving in American civil society and is only likely to strengthen as time goes on. The biggest grievance you have is 3 syllables in the Pledge of Allegiance, which is only recited by schoolchildren? You're pretty well off, then. The courts consistently rule in favor of secular principles and show no indication that they will deviate from that pattern in the foreseeable future.

I grow tired of the delusions of persecution on both sides. Republicans and Democrats both think they are being oppressed by the other, and it seems the same is true of Christians and atheists. Look, the reality is that in America, your freedom of conscience is quite secure, and always will be. Relax.



faith based initiatives is a recent example of my freedoms being eroded away. my tax money is going to support church programs. i'm not a parishoner, i'm not even of that faith* but my money goes to them all the same.

that's the slow decline of freedom.


*check the numbers but i'm fairly sure a significant majority (i last looked this up 3 or so years ago) goes to christian programs including abstinence only programs (many of which teach that condoms are worthless and discourage condom use) while the scraps are mostly picked up by hebrew programs.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


history_of_psychiatry
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 22 Dec 2006
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,105
Location: X

02 Dec 2008, 8:16 pm

I never met the guy and he may have been very nice but I hate theocrats like him that feel the need to have to push their stupid religious crap into our secular society. Keep your religions out of our public schools, keep them out of our healthcare systems, and for the love of god (pun intended), keep them out of our government. I hope I never see the day that america becomes a theocracy because of the relidiots (religious idiots) who found it so necessary to base our country's laws on their dogmatic beliefs.


_________________
X


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

02 Dec 2008, 8:32 pm

skafather84 wrote:
faith based initiatives is a recent example of my freedoms being eroded away. my tax money is going to support church programs. i'm not a parishoner, i'm not even of that faith* but my money goes to them all the same.

that's the slow decline of freedom.

Many religious leaders would rather not have those faith-based initiatives, and I suspect that they'll start to fade away once we're rid of Bush. Your tax money is not going to support church programs, it is going to support basic charity work during which the churches involved are expressly forbidden to proselytize.

history_of_psychiatry: You are missing some important distinctions. We do not have a secular society, we have a secular government. American society is still predominantly religious. Yes, it should be kept out of public schools (and it is) because public schools are a government-provided service. America is highly unlikely to become a theocracy.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

02 Dec 2008, 8:36 pm

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
faith based initiatives is a recent example of my freedoms being eroded away. my tax money is going to support church programs. i'm not a parishoner, i'm not even of that faith* but my money goes to them all the same.

that's the slow decline of freedom.

Many religious leaders would rather not have those faith-based initiatives, and I suspect that they'll start to fade away once we're rid of Bush. Your tax money is not going to support church programs, it is going to support basic charity work during which the churches involved are expressly forbidden to proselytize.



obama pledged to keep the faith based initiatives. hopefully he cuts it...but do dems ever really cut spending?


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

02 Dec 2008, 8:40 pm

skafather84 wrote:
obama pledged to keep the faith based initiatives. hopefully he cuts it...but do dems ever really cut spending?

Clinton did, but that was probably more at the urging of the Republicans in Congress.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

02 Dec 2008, 8:44 pm

Orwell wrote:
Yes, it should be kept out of public schools (and it is) because public schools are a government-provided service.



just a quick point on that. i have no problem with religious clubs so long as it's done equally (ie, if there's a christian club and some kids want to form an atheist club or buddhist club, they should have the right to). that and i think kids should be allowed to wear whatever iconography they wish (crosses, stars of david, pentagrams, sacred chaos).


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


skafather84
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,848
Location: New Orleans, LA

02 Dec 2008, 8:47 pm

Orwell wrote:
skafather84 wrote:
obama pledged to keep the faith based initiatives. hopefully he cuts it...but do dems ever really cut spending?

Clinton did, but that was probably more at the urging of the Republicans in Congress.


i mean specifically the faith based program bush signed into law back in 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Hous ... nitiatives

^that guy.


edit: just realized i read that wrong...you were talking about clinton cutting spending.


_________________
Wherever they burn books they will also, in the end, burn human beings. ~Heinrich Heine, Almansor, 1823

?I wouldn't recommend sex, drugs or insanity for everyone, but they've always worked for me.? - Hunter S. Thompson


Last edited by skafather84 on 02 Dec 2008, 8:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Orwell
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Aug 2007
Age: 36
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,518
Location: Room 101

02 Dec 2008, 8:48 pm

skafather84 wrote:
Orwell wrote:
Yes, it should be kept out of public schools (and it is) because public schools are a government-provided service.



just a quick point on that. i have no problem with religious clubs so long as it's done equally (ie, if there's a christian club and some kids want to form an atheist club or buddhist club, they should have the right to). that and i think kids should be allowed to wear whatever iconography they wish (crosses, stars of david, pentagrams, sacred chaos).

Agreed.


_________________
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH