"Jesus dying for our sins."

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yeah im really anti-religious and anti-christain but try not to menchion it but debate there knolege on evolution

Sorry for not responding sooner. You might have construed what I said as being offensive. I apologise. It's very difficult to talk about religion rationally from a 'scientific' perspective without offending someone who may have based their whole lives around the concept of God. I'm not trying to say to religious people "ha - god doesn't exist because of theory_132", merely lamenting the fact that life would be so much nicer if God wasn't such a fuzzy concept.

And fuzzy concepts such as horrorscopes, fortune cookies, tarrot cards, myths, and superstitions are almost always a matter of 'faith', and are so obscure that you can interpret them in the way that makes sense to you. To me religion is exactly like these things, with so many people making God what they want him to be, to fit their own 'faith'. And people do interpret god differently; their actions are so different from each other that one could argue that people would behave the same without the concept of God or not.

But that's what's faith all about. Faith in God, or faith in something else -- what makes the idea of God so different?

The idea a person who did nothing can take the place of some who did sounds insane to me. Sort like Jesus is a whipping boy for all those naughty sinner types. Next point related to this is the idea of sin. Who every thought of this was an evil ba stard bent on control and power. Think about it most ppl will do what you call sin and you have the fix to make them feel better. But only if you are submissive and do what they say. Sort like a doctor saying you will need a med the rest of your life but he made up the sickness. That is how I view most theology.

I have said what I have said it is for what anybody to beleive or not to beleive You all have Your freedom to beleive in what You all what to beleive in the end. That is up to anybody to beleive in end the end. It is truly up to You want to beleive in the end is it not. Nobody can make You beleive at all in the end.

FREEDOM IS YOURS TO DO WHAT YOU WANT DO DO IN THE END.

no one can die for the sins of another!

Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the LORD said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Exodus 32:32-33 (KJV)

The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin. Deuteronomy 24:16 (KJV)

Every man will die for his own sin!

In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. Jeremiah 31:29-30 (KJV)

Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. Ezekiel 18:4 (KJV)

The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. Ezekiel 18:20 (KJV) Repeats Verse 4 in Ezekiel 18. (above)

Then Ezekiel sums it up:

Again, when the wicked man turneth away from his wickedness that he hath committed, and doeth that which is lawful and right, he shall save his soul alive. Because he considereth, and turneth away from all his transgressions that he hath committed, he shall surely live, he shall not die. Ezekiel 18:27-28 (KJV)

I have just read this whole thread and have enjoyed every single posting . Heres my 2 cents worth.
I dont think that Jesus died for our sins, I think He died because of them - as in we were so threatened by his thinking,beliefs and way of doing things that we just had to get rid of him and I think it would be the same today.
We simply did'nt get what He was about and i dont think that has changed much.
And what's our big obsession about the death of his body? I dont think Jesus thought it was that important - He saw it for what it was - nothing! Which was why He over came it and this world and all our "sins" because He saw them for what they really were - nothing, a simple misperception and one that could be changed.
He knew What he was was not based in any earth form and so nothing here could ever really kill "him". He knew who He was and acted from that place. We just couldnt understand, i think slowly this is changing and that it will be Us who will herold in the second coming of the Christ - the Christ within us all as our understanding and openness to change grows.
I am coming to understand that All paths are needed and that All paths lead to God in the end ; that " God", what ever our perception of that is, reaches us where we are when we want it.
Respect.
Allie.

Ill read this thread later, but for now;

Its now established that the jesus character was most directly based on a figure called 'Mithra'.
There may well have existed a real 'flesh and blood' jesus, but when people say jesus now they usually refer (unknowingly) to a mythological ideal composed of various historical figures/symbols.

http://www.truthbeknown.com/mithra.htm



The entire judao-christian concept of trinity, virgin birth, adam & eve, genesis and many of the historical accounts, are in fact copied from previous religions - Egypt, Persia, Babylon, & Sumer. The origins of this story (its like an epic game of chinese whispers played over the millenia) can be traced back as far as ancient clay tablets from the Sumerian civilization of 4000-2000BC. Few people are able to translate them and thoses that do argue over the exact literal meaning of the genesis story.

Zecharia Sitchin's genesis interpreation is a lot of fun - that an alien race arrived to mine earths mineral deposits. They bioengineered homo-sapiens from homo-erectus & their own genes, for use as workers. They eventually abandoned earth before the great flood, leaving us to perish. It corresponds neatly with folklore from various continents (particularly africa) and many of the great physical mysteries (eg Nazca/Palpa lines/holes). However, in recent years Sitchins objectivity & translation skills have been heavily critized.

Theres a huge library of ancient translations available here - bear in mind its impossible to evaluate their objectivity without actually learning the language your self; http://www.earth-history.com/

Pretty sure I wouldn't mind being tortured to death. Might be fun.