Hello,
This is a stimulating discussion, to say the least. And all this from someone asking whom we would like to meet after they have died! I am new here, but I hope it is alright if I join in…
It seems to me if you read Mtt 25, which MMM has suggested and others of you have quoted, that the “last judgment” specified is not for “un-believers” but rather for those who claimed the name of Christ to begin with. They seem astounded that they were not doing the will of Christ. This is more a story of knowing oneself than it is of eternal damnation. Are you as a Christian (if indeed you call yourself one – and I’m not assuming all of you do) living in the state of grace you claim Christ has given you? If not, then you are the goat Jesus is referring to here. This is a judgment upon those who claim to do works in the name of Jesus and yet are doing them for themselves. This passage, as I interpret, is a judgment upon all the self-serving people who call themselves Christian and yet cheat their neighbor and refuse to treat all of humanity as their brothers and sisters. Many of the religious right, left and medium currently fall into this category. Anyone claiming the name Christian and not seeking “holy living” (the same word in Greek as “sainthood”) through the atonement of Christ, is in short – a goat. I would suggest to you all that the atrocities committed in the name of Christianity – the Crusades, the Inquisition, the European church’s ignoring the NAZI problem, all fall under this category.
My personal perception is that society’s current lack of “religion” (and to some degree the overextension of fundamentalist religions) are results of this anti-truth living. In an age of “human achievement” we cannot accept the truth that we are “fallen” (see the discussion on Cancer) and cannot redeem ourselves – that we actually need God’s help – and thus we move into a realm where we reject God. Just as Adam did when he chose the fruit, just as each child does when they disobey their parents, just as we all do when we live a self-serving life. There are many ways to reject God. Atheists do so by simply refusing to acknowledge god’s existence (the definition of the word, “a” meaning “not” and “theos” meaning “god”). Agnostics, on the other hand, claim a lack of knowledge of god (again, “a” and “Gnostic” meaning “knowledge”). I am not judging or labeling – please don’t hear that – I am merely discussing the classic terms and how they originated.
Others ignore god and seek seemingly more pleasant solutions to the mystery of life in other religions. And at this point in history, there are a plethora to choose from! I have always been fascinated by the similarities and differences between various religions, especially the way “gods of the air” and “gods of the earth” are depicted in each, including Judeo Christianity… I am not so self-oriented as to think all began as Christians. I think that this is an intrinsic exploration of those belonging to people of all faiths when they are uncomfortable with the truths presented throughout life. The reaction against or for militaristic religion generally occurs as a response to self-doubt either made manifest or denied utterly.
My experience has been that doubt can produce growth and faith if you let it remain fertile. If you stomp it out or harvest it too soon you have either fundamentalism or rejection - two sides of the same coin in my experience.
I never understood this as a child when I heard it, but I now understand that a great deal of this confusion and angst has come from the last century and its technological advancements, including and especially the atomic weapons we have created. I fear that in generations to come, this invention will be our own “Tower of Babel” myth. We have striven and in some minor sense we feel we have succeeded at becoming ‘like god.’ Our pride as a people globally will most likely result in similar results.
As for the ark, this was not a cruel act. When you have made a painting, or a model and you are not pleased with your creation, what do you do? Do you put it on display proudly for all to see, or do you hide it and keep it away from everything else (imprisoned) or do you start over with a clean slate? God chose not to start over completely. Remember, we are a creation of this vast being who brought all of existence into being. Our oh-so-important lives are nothing in the grand scheme of existence (Shelly’s – or is it Keats’? – poem Ozymandeaus makes that very clear even on our scale of understanding).
The other scenes of final judgment and apocalypse (just a Greek word for ‘the end’) from Daniel and Revelation primarily, simply sum up the understanding that we as short-sided humans have not met our potential or our reason for being created – that is true and harmonious communion with that which made us. I believe that these texts and others LIKENS an eternity without God – which would be the purest form of hell and just an extension of sin, which is the absence of God in our choices and lives – would be as bad or worse than being boiled in fire forever. The rather colorful language in these texts is most probably intended to be analogous, but whether it is or not, it conveys that life without God for eternity is torment. Even more so after a "judgement" because at that point there will be no more doubt or denial. I would choose a lake of fire as a blessing - in that it would keep my mind off the horrible, stupid mistake I made when I chose to serve myself instead of meet my potential. Each of these stories also make it clear it is OUR choice, not God’s to be with or without Him - now or later.
Well, I intended to just say hello and have written quite a bit instead! Please let me know if this was clear or if I need to elaborate. I look forward to your response and your thoughts. This is a wonderful forum and the exchange of ideas here can only in the end further everyone’s understanding of the events we are discussing. Thanks to whomever created this.
Sincerely,
DOULOS-XPISTOU
21 Jun 2006, 10:33 pm
