Kindergarten disaster - Need to vent

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My 5 year old started kindergarten last Monday ( the 15th ), and things are not going well at school. She's in a class that is supposed to be for high functioning children. It is grades k to 2nd grade and there are 7 children. One teacher and two assistant teachers. It is an integrated class. They do art recess and lunch with the general education kindergarten. My daughter has a pdd-nos diagnosis but people have said it may one day become aspergers.

Everyday last week my daughter came home exhausted and spaced out. I think it's really hard adjusting to a 6 hour school day and a 40 minute school bus ride each way. She also has two pages of homework a night on top of a reading log. A lot for a 5 year old. But thats not really the issue. My daughters teacher has been giving me really negative feedback ( starting from day 1) and my daughter has started hitting at school. She used to hit in her old pre school but then transferred to a special ed pre school and stopped hitting altogether. She was doing great in the second pre school. No hitting and asking other kids to play very nicely etc. So I know she can stop.

I know that hitting is a bad behavior and I want my child to stop. The notes from my DDs teacher are to quote " I noticed she refuses to say sorry every time she hits". And she has multiple time outs every day. The teacher wants advice from me on how to calm my DD but the thing is DD doesn't hit at home. She has never hit me or my husband or immediate family. I feel like it's something to do with her environment at school.

And just a few things that bugs me on top of everything else they don't get to do all the fun things I used to do in kindergarten like art and singing. It's all academic. And her teacher never smiles.

I'm so not loving the kindergarten experience. Neither is my DD. Not sure what to do.

My vote:

Pull her.

Some of the things you mentioned are common anxieties, that kids can work through, but others seem like a complete miss-fit. The work load is too heavy, the discipline too rough, and the teacher already has decided what your daughter is like. There are just too many things to work on with them, IMHO, and it will get worse before it gets better.

Why go through that when there is an easy way out? Kids don't have to go to K. So pull her. Then look for something more suitable, that you'll be able to feel good about.

JHMO.

My biggest regret was sticking to a preschool program that wasn't right for my son. There will be plenty of years where parents and kids together have no choice but to learn how to make lemonade out of lemons with poor situations, but its best to delay that little life lesson until a few more accomplishments are under our little one's belts.

Sorry, I'm not always this definite when I post on these forums, and there are always a million things I don't know, but kids really deserve to thrive in school, and most kids CAN thrive in school. It sounds like you have an IEP, people who already know she is special needs, etc., so I don't see what you have left to wedge these people with, and meanwhile your daughter is going to start regressing. Get her out. Meet with them after she's out if that might work.

Side note, I really dislike such long bus rides for little ones. Buses are chaos, and inadequately supervised. I suppose it is possible that just the bus is part of the issue but, still, I'd rather investigate while your child is safely removed to a place that isn't stressful to her.

Hi DW mom, Thank you for responding. I'm not ready to pull her. Not yet. I want to make things work for her. I am going to start looking at other schools though. She does have an IEP. I am not shy about calling an IEP meeting if I have to.

It's crazy because this is supposed to be a great program. Well thats what all the teachers and admin people from the school district said. But I'm thinking they mean great from an administration point of view. I am not feeling it at all. I haven't been able to talk to the other parents yet. I'm curious to know how they feel.

2 pages of homework a night for a 5 year old? No fun activities and a teacher that never smiles? Your daughter is stuck there for 6 hours every day, and is on a bus for nearly 1 1/2 hours every day. IMO, you would be best to pull her out now if you can.

At the moment, she is clearly unhappy, and is regressing to behavior problems that had previously been solved. I understand you would like to make this work for her, but it does not sound like the type of situation which a couple of small changes can fix. No matter what the teachers and admin said about this being a great program, it seems clear that it is not a good match for your daughter's needs.

Are there any actual benefits to keeping her in this program that she won't get anywhere else?

Your kid's class sounds like heaven, on paper: class for high functioning children, only 7 children per classroom, one teacher and two assistants... But reading about your situation I would say your kid's teacher has no idea how to handle a kid with special education needs. That's pretty common. Schools save money contracting people that is not well trained. Trying to get your kid apologize for hitting, punishing her with times out, and asking how to handle her tantrums/meltdowns are obvious signs that she does not know how to handle a kid with AS.

I would recommend to talk to the special ed pre school teacher she was transferred to last year and ask her for help. Ask her what she did that made your kid stop hitting. If you are lucky enough she will help you. You need to get a specialist for your daughter, a therapist preferably, that help you handle the situation with the school and tell the teacher what to do and how to accomodate her strategies to comply with your kid's needs. The therapists do that, and that works. The teachers do not listen to us, but listen to them.

I am sure the way your kid is behaving is because of the environment at school. Most probably it is because of the teacher.

You better forget about pre-school and all the fun things they used to do. Kindergarden is not like that anymore. It's all academic. And you need it to be that way, because your daughter needs to learn how to write and how to read in order to be ready for 1st grade (first grade is a nightmare, with text books, 12 different courses... it is tough).

Thanks for your responses and for listening. It gets me thinking.
I have a few things planned for next week. I am going to talk to my DDs therapist that she sees every other week and also the school therapist. There is a school therapist so why not use them right? There is a possibility something can be worked out with their help. I'm also thinking of talking to the principle. When I met the principle last Spring she said. " I will do anything for my kids" and " I will fight to get them the help and resources they need". So, I am thinking of taking her up on it. And I'm going to look into the other special ed classes in the city. I need to figure out what's out there. She was almost an inclusion student but I thought this would be better. I suppose there is the option of a regular special ed class. It might not be for "high functioning" kids like her but maybe there would be a more nurturing environment.

When is her birthday? Is she an early 5 or late 5 with the cut-off. You might want to put her back in a preschool environment and restart Kindy next year if it won't make her too old. Like someone else said, Kindergarten is not playtime anymore. Our state has a Sept. 1st cut-off. My son's b-day is Sept. 9th. It worked out great for him to be the oldest. Academically, he could have gone to school the year prior and still been ahead of his peers, but maturity wise, this was better for him.

My son has been always been mainstreamed. We actually didn't get a disgnosis until the end of 2nd grade. In preschool and Kindy, he had some issues, but nothing too major. The teachers mostly said he just seemed more immature, but some kids matured slower than others. In 1st grade, he had a terrible teacher and it was an awful year. Had I already had the answers and the AS diagnosis I have now, I would have demanded a new teacher. We spent a long time undoing that year and he still thinks older teachers are mean. My son loves learning, but hates school still and most of it is directly related to 1st grade. It isn't worth it. Make a change.

It might be less stressful for her to go to a kindergarten just a few minutes away, even if it's not a special needs one...remember children with AS like PDD-NOS have been surviving regular kindergartens for the better part of the history of kindergarten.

She might do well at a private, structured school where here interaction with the other children would be in a controlled setting and the classes tend to be small. This might not apply to her, but I recall one technique some of my teachers used for the children who tended to have trouble sitting still or would get into trouble if their mind was allowed to wander, would be to make them their "special helper".

This child would be in charge of passing out and collecting papers and supplies and would sit near the teacher's desk. It usually wasn't the same child every time though.

Just a quick thought on schools - sometimes the schools that rate great on paper aren't really a great fit for all kids. Sometimes the schools get their good reputations from testing results and that becomes their focus. They teach for tests to keep up appearances and the kids that don't fit their mold get weeded out, one way or another.

When selecting a school, I've found it more valuable to look at parent/student evaluations rather than straight ratings. Some websites like greatschools (.org, .net, ?) give a better picture of what the atmosphere is really like. It can be surprising to see that sometimes the less desirable schools have much better atmosphere for learning than the top notch ones. I have noticed a link between student body diversity and a welcoming and positive atmosphere, but that's just been my own experience at the elementary level (2 different states).

In any case, at this age, I believe that enjoyment of school is almost as important as the academics. If a child doesn't like school, they're not going to want to go and it becomes a vicious cycle of negative attitudes reinforcing bad behaviors. If the child likes going, then everything becomes so much easier. They need things like art, singing, recess, and gym so they have something fun to look forward to.

A long bus ride, long day, homework every night, unhappy teacher, it all sounds like it's too much. Maybe some of the pressure could taken off. I don't know your child's specific needs, but I can share my child's experience so far (entering 1st grade). He's in a mainstream class along with about 16 other kids. One has classic autism so there's an extra aide in the classroom. He was receiving some therapies, but has been phased out. So far, so good. He likes school and he's doing fairly well. There are clearly some social issues, but it's been manageable. I was very worried about going from a therapy-intensive environment where he had a personal aide in preschool to a mostly mainstream environment, but I actually think that the drop in intensity has been a very good thing for him.

As parents, we want the best of everything for our kids. The best school, the best services, etc. But sometimes I think it can put undue pressure on our kids. Not that our expectations are too high, but kids can sense that we want the best for them so they internalize and develop overly high expectations for themselves. It's ok to lighten up a bit. A class with 7 kids and 3 teachers isn't really mainstream. Maybe instead of trying for a regular special ed, which IMO is not always the best fit for higher functioning kids because they're not really challenged and they get bored, you could try a mainstream class in your own neighborhood. Her IEP would probably transfer so there should still be an adequate level of support.

LOL - So much for my quick thought. Anyway, good luck. It takes a lot of trial and error to figure it out, but don't accept something that's clearly not working.

I would pull her from there. I have a 5 year old too. He just turned 5 in June and he was in a special ed preschool at age 3. At 4 we insisted in regular PK (because at the end of his 3 year old preschool class, he picked up on behavior of lower functioning students) but it was also constantly negative. So we pulled him. We put him in a different (more loving) private preschool and he did fine. As far as his services went, we went with private services that our insurance paid for. He was a much happier child after that. We moved out of state in January so we decided to not put him in any kind of program until he started Kindergarten in August. Between then and now he has improved SO much despite the fact of him not receiving therapy although he did socially interact with his peers at church.

Right now he mainstreamed in Kindergarten and academically he's doing great. His teachers are working with us and made him a new behavior chart.

The school he is in now is also a public school. Has great ratings and his class size is reasonable for him too. There are about 17 students, 1 teacher, and 1 teachers assistant and he sits by the TA.

Before we even signed for a house, we toured his school first. We were told that they try to mainstream students with autistic tendencies but that there's also an inclusive classroom for students who need it.

My son never hits either, he is seriously the sweetest child and he apparently he has hit a few times in his class. I asked him why he did it, he told me that the other boy did it first. So I am sure they probably both got that written on their charts. Since he just started Kindergarten, I am going to ask his teacher if he has any friends or if he gets bullied.

My son also has homework that he has to do 3 times a week. He gets it on Monday and has to turn it in on Friday. We really don't do it every night. It depends on his mood. He can finish the 4 pages of homework in one setting if he takes a good afternoon nap. But we usually try to do it twice a week he does fine with it. The bus ride from school to home is 20-25 minutes for him.

Good luck! I know it's hard to make decisions but i didn't want to just read and not post after our experience.

I'm becoming quick at calling for a 'general meeting' with teacher and spec ed teachers and the principal. when something isn't going as planned and i definitely suggest the same. Not a full on IEP meeting but a meeting with the people who can impact her day to day experience at school is definitely a 'right now' priority'. Have the teacher describe the behavior and what she thinks seems to precipitate the unwanted behaviors. Make it clear your daughter doesn't exhibit these behaviors at home so something new in the classroom is frustrating/ stressing her and engage them to actively help identify the cause. If the teacher is inexperienced you can always request that the district spec ed director observe and make recommendations. Share with them discipline methods that have worked in the past and explain why what they are doing is counter productive.

If the homework load is too heavy - tell them. She has an IEP. They are required to tailor her education to her needs. Our daughter teachers had no problem with reducing her homework load when it was too much for her - especially the writing assignments.

And if your daughter is able to articulate herself fairly well, ask her. Ask her whats going on and if something is frustrating her - preferably in a calm quiet removed moment - like on a Saturday night.

It may turn out this teacher is just a bad match - a change of classrooms may be all thats needed. But definitely give it the solid college try first.

Would her former preschool teacher be open to reaching out to this new teacher to share what worked in her classroom? Rally your allies wherever you can find them.

I agree with some of the others who said this sounds a bit too much. Can she go to the preschool for an extra year of social skills development? If not, modifying the homework load, or trying to transfer classes or schools might work better. There is something in that environment that's not agreeing with her... Can you ask to observe her for a day to try to find out what it is? From afar, of course. Good luck!