Teachers make me so mad sometimes. Major grade drop.

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I won't be as eloquent as DW - who pissed in your Wheaties? You dredge up this months old post just to rant about how the OP should be a responsible parent. Why don't you be a responsible human being and think before you come on here and spout this !@$@&%. You stated that your parents taught you impulse control - well based on what I have just seen, the message didn't sink in very deep.

I have to deal with my son's year head who has the same attitude as mamaferryman, my son is 13yrs old and is in 2nd year post primary. He forgets or complains that he does not have enough time to write his homework in his diary. The consequences of this is school refusal when he doesn't complete his homework. The year head attitude is that its his responsibility I agree but also he needs to be reminded and given enough time. She expects him to be the same as the other students and is putting so much unnecessary pressure on him. We ask for support for our children because they need it, we also understand that there is other students, but schools cannot be claiming that they cater for children with special needs if they are not offering support.

He then gets notes in his diary which I have tried to explain to him that its only used to let me know where he is struggling but he doesn't see it this way. He thinks its putting him down and gets very upset it so difficult. All this then adds to his anxieties he can't concentrate on his class because he is worried about what happened in the previous class. He comes home everyday stressed out.

There is lots of different incidents I could post about, parents work hard at home send their children to school prepared for the day for my son it all seems to fall apart in the school.

Not every law is right, nor is everyone's understanding of what it says.

I should clarify. I was fine with my son dropping from an A to a B because he forgot to turn something in. He may as well learn that the world looks at a package of skills, and organization is one of them. A single grade drop does that loud and clear. But the rubric didn't work that way: one miss and he was down to a D. Do the math and see how those zeros weigh; utterly and completely unfair, and spirit killing. The teacher may not always be in control of the accommodations, but she IS in control of the rubric, and also in control of systems for getting assingment information to families. There IS NO GOOD REASON to allow a nine year old to drop from an A or B to an F because of an inability to keep track of paper. It is spirit killing.

I know that my son would have gotten nothing if he didn't have an ASD label, but that doesn't make what isn't right, into something that is. We now have a system that is polar opposite to when I was a child, when a more logical middle is called for.

You didn't just say "this is how it is," in your posts, you argued FOR it. And disparaged my suggestion that 9 is too young for such draconian zeros.

And I disagree.

I'll stand by saying 9 is too young, for my relatively organized NT daughter would have freaked out from the stress of it. She was ready for it Middle School, having an older brother she knew what to expect and used sheer determination to make sure nothing got missed, but at 9 she was different. I had so many tears already about assingments she didn't feel were up to her high standards, and just the stress of school overall, that I know it would have flipped her out. Nine year olds need to learn to read, write and multiply. They need to learn to love learning for nothing but the sake of learning - to experience that joy, and sense of accomplishment. They don't need the stress of playing to a grading rubric that doesn't match their unique set of strengths and weaknesses. Let middle school dappen their spirits, if it has to happen - it probably will dappen them anyway - but not elementary. All you'll get is a child so sure they can never succeed that they'll close the door to learning the skill. Which could well be what happened with those seniors you mentioned: too much, too soon. Not effective at all.

Last edited by DW_a_mom on 21 Nov 2011, 5:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

I was the kid who "missed the time". All the other kids right away put their homework down and everything. I was a little slower than the other kids. I triple checked to make sure my work was always neat in the folder. [I did this even in the 3rd grade, I was reading Edgar Poe and Homer by 5th grade never got recoginition for it though]. But what ended up happening was all that double checking always made me miss my oppurtunity to turn it in. And it was embarassing to be the kid, while everyone was sitting down, be standing up turning in my homework. I didn't do certain things out of embarassment. I didn't turn in at least half of the homework assignment if I missed one page. School and homework was a source of embarassment. All knowing that I was bright; I also had somewhat fears I was not good enough. I am and was at that time an over thinker and perfectionist and that got in the way with a lot of my homework and grades. I wish when I was a kid that a teacher cared enough to help me out. To sit down and say, hey I notice this and this. Instead it was, "Get your homework done now or F". And that was never helpful because that made me even more stressed out. The perfectionist inside of me whispered in the back of my mind, "Becuase you missed turning it in on it's due date it needs to be even better now". I felt I was never good enough in school, or to slow or to dumb even though that wasn't really true. I grasped concepts fairly easily, understood assignments before the students. But I had fears of Fs and Ds, that I always wanted to be do super good instead of doing what was necessary.

Teacher's need to have that one on one time with their students. Having a certain amount of students in class shouldn't be an excuse at all. If they notice a student who originally was doing well, suddenly start dropping that should be a cause of concern. A teacher should sit with that student and the parents if it continues.

This post is ancient. The issue is long resolved. I recommend starting a new post if you want to argue this issue.

I was told I had to use the Americas Choice format. I hate it. I was told I had to grade on what was accomplished not just on effort I hate it.
I tried giving my students points for effort Just turning in the work was enough. Then I am told that all my students can't have A's there has to be accountability for performance not just effort.

I hate it. I think we should do away with grades and grade levels. give the students the standards and when they accomplish that standard let them move on. I don't teach elementary because I can't deal with little kids as much as I can the older ones. But, I watch my grandchildren comeing up and the testing starts in 3rd grade. The students who come to our school 80% are reading at least 2 grade levels below where they should be because the elementary teacher teaches to the test so the scores look good. I don't care about that stupid test it only takes a snapshot of what the child feels like writing down today.
As a teacher I cannot make the system change. The parents have to. No one listens to us. They listen to the parents. Parents do'nt excercise their rights and pretty soon we have politicians running out schools. At one time my students were taking 7 standardized test each year and then a weekly assessment in writing, math, language arts and reading on a rotating basis. all I felt like I did was test.

Don't get me wrong I do not support politicians telling the professionals how to do the job. I don't tell them how to do theirs. I know at the beginning of the term I see an assignment dripping percentages a lot. as the term progresses that lessons. But, I also teach mentally challenged children so they get points for riding the school bus, getting parent signitures on homework, writing a couple of sentences each night about their nightly reading. I am trying to teach them to advocate for themselves and take responsibility for their learning. Some have no clue no matter how much I explain and others catch on and get the signitures every night.
I am stuck with the system and I can't change it. I need parents to call the states and say wait a minute. We don't need more testing and we don't need to be compared to countries that only test the top 10% of their students. The states are now evaluating teacher performance based on test scores not student performance or progress. NCLB was the most ignorant piece of legislation ever written. Every child will be proficient in reading and math by 2014 and no provisions or allowances were made for students with learning disabilities. My students have to take the same test the gifted kids take. My students are not allowed to use a calculator on the math. I can't help them with reading, and I can read the science and social studies part of the test to them. That is not a level playing field.
SUpport the current system I HATE IT. But there is another side to this argument. I have to deal with parents who have not accepted their child has a learning disability, want me to raise the child teaching morals, hygene, social skills, on top of the academics I do my best but I am serious you would not believe what parents ask us to do in the IEP. The coment on proper masterbation was real it happened. We had a parent today taht was totally out of control. The principal called her because her child walked out of class and left. Just up and left. She wanted the child arrested. We can't do that. Running away from home is not against the law. AT any rate. I guess I just get tired of being blamed for everything wrong with the system when the parents in our area don't take any responsibility for their childs learning and are not held accountable for that learning. IT is always our fault as teachers and there is only 6 hours a day with the students. I can't do it all in that amount of time.

We need to teach life skills, we need to teach how to pay the bills, use credit wisely shop for groceries, cook for themselves. Unfortunately we are told we can't do that we have to teach algebra geometry, and such. When I asked the superentendent of our district why he had no answer.

Now on that rant ... I agree with you. All of those are things I know are real issues. I am sorry for your frustrations. Will write more later.

Not being an education, I don't format label A from Adam, but I find the comment on effort interesting. Studies have shown that children praised for their effort outperform those praised for their result.

Our elementary school does not have grades, and I don't think elementary schools should. Instead, the children are given a mark on how close they are to mastering the standard for the year. In the early part of the year you expect to see "making progress;" at the end of the year you expect to see "meets standard." I am comfortable with that system.

In fourth grade they do start to introduce grades but, as I told my son, they are just to let kids see how the rubrics work. What matters on that report is the progress towards goal information, not the grade.

I have lots of rails about standardized testing and the way it gets used, but it isn't actually all bad. It has helped the local schools make some wiser curriculum choices, because the data does pin point what areas are not getting covered adequately. Some of it is a joke, given that my son has trouble spelling but tests out just fine (picking a word from a list is different than conjuring it), but some of it is useful. But I am also in a district that has said loud and clear, "we don't give a dam if our schools are deemed to be failing under your ridiculous arbitrary standard. We will look at the problem spots the data shows us, we will work to improve, but we will not allow you to force us to pretend the testing tells us things it does not."
Not that they have much choice: with a large immigrant population speaking limited English, there is NO WAY they will get to 100% proficiency, and they've prepared for years for the inevitable. If we break the data down by subgroup, the kids in our district are in the top ranks among their peers across the board, and yet the school is labeled, "failing." Total BS. That data has to be studied and understood, not just published in a summary. When used right, it does help kids succeed. But few districts know how to use it right, and they unfortunately have to buck the system to do so.

I joined a parent committee in hopes of changing the middle school grading rubric. First I found myself bucking the other parents who apparently like the system, as it rewards their neat and organized but maybe not as bright children. And even when I got the committee to a good compromise, barely a word of our language was actually adopted. I gave up. The force of the system is too strong for me. Instead, I point people at the school to Peg Tyre's book, "The Trouble with Boys," and hope her research will speak for me.



If you are trying to teach a mentally challenged child to follow instructions, I understand that point system. But my smart AS child would fail miserably under it. Amazing how hard it is to remember to get a parental signature, because to him that has nothing at all to do with learning, and he is always focused ahead to the interesting and challenging parts, and never the mundane.



I really railed against standard testing when my son was younger, and I still do to an extent, but I have seen our district make good use of the information, and that is the silver lining to me. But it is such a battle for us, since the average scores everyone sees are low due to the volume of English language learners. We test kids who have only been in this country 6 months! Nuts. But our district has also learned how to break out the data and show parents what it means, and that is when you really learn something. The assumption is that smart kids in such a diverse learning environment will suffer academically, but we're seeing the opposite: the more the school integrates, the higher EVERYONE's scores go. Just try telling that to the parents in homogeneous district next door, which has a higher summary score, but actually has lower subgroup scores.

Some parents are nuts. I don't know what to do with them; I get to walk away. When they come here we try to gently get them to see another perspective. I get a lot for my son from the school, I've been told, because stubborn and opinionated as I am, apparently I'm "easy" to work with. That kind of tells me a lot, doesn't it? THIS momma bear is "easy?" I guess it's relative, eh?

What is best for each child to learn really varies by child. The unfortunate thing about public school is that there is limited room or budget for figuring that out. Instead, they are stuck dealing with "averages." And politics. For some kids that works out, for others it does not. I don't blame teachers for the issues in the system, but I will blame a teacher if they don't work with me, instead of against me, because while they know education, I know my child, and the right solution usually involves pulling the two together. Because my son has an IEP, we get to sit down at least once a year and figure out how to do that; I think it's a shame there isn't enough time to do that for each child, actually, although I guess some really don't need it (my daughter is so easy with school right now, she has teachers who have no clue who I am ... how odd ). But, still, there have been conversations that left me flabbergasted, like the time in 6th grade everyone in the room saw the obvious solution for my son, it was not going to cost the school a cent, and the district special coordinator was telling me, "we can't do that" because the solution wasn't aligning to a box on her list. WHAT???? Yeah, I won, I wasn't about to take that kind of bureaucratic nonsense, and the teachers were actually happy I did that, since that was a battle they really weren't in a position to fight (so I guess I see your point about some things having to come from the parents, in that case it really did, but other times we're simply dismissed, and with some of the nutty requests that get made I guess it is easy to understand why).

So. Anyway. There are no obvious answers. Totally situation by situation.

DW, you may be stubborn and opiniated but you also listen to all sides of the issue (at least that's what I've seen here). I think that is among the critical components to getting what you want, showing the people you are dealing with that you are listening to their side of the story. Parents who go in just bent on getting their way and not listening to others are not going to be as successful as you have been. I am hopeful that I can follow in your virtual footsteps with my son!

Thanks.

Yes, I think you are right. I do try to listen, integrate, and respect, and presumably that shows.

You do a great job on this board ... I love having you here, you answer so much before I do and so well that I don't feel any need to. As long as you don't get any bad eggs to deal with (which you might, there are so many), you'll do great.

This post caught my attention the other night and I had to calm down before I reposted a reply.

Quite frankly THIS is the reason my daughter is NOT in a public school.

Your information is quite wrong and a student with a "focusing issue" as you put it IS eligible for supports and modifications through Section 504 of the ADAAA. Further, the very fact that this student cannot as you put it "do what the other 125 students do in a day" is THE EXACT REASON this student qualifies for coverage under Section 504. Your unqualified OPINION that the child SHOULD be able to do it shows a very severe lack of understanding of ADHD and the broad spectrum of impairments it can entail. My child does not have ADHD, but does have trouble "focusng" and concentrating. Her public school refused supports just as you are stating and wasted a year of my daughters precious education using budgets restrictions as an EXCUSE for not doing SIMPLE no-cost solutions to mitigating her impairment. That got them a lashing from DOE OCR and your school will get one too if they do not get up to date on the Jan 1, 2009 BROAD changes to the definitions used with regard to Section 504.

If you are a Sp Ed teacher, perhaps you are a little burned out or jaded with respect to educating children. It seems that is more often the case these days with the bureaucracy that is happening within the schools.

"He who passively accepts evil is as much involved in it as he who helps to perpetrate it. He who accepts evil without protesting against it is really cooperating with it." Martin Luther King Jr.

I suggest you watch the film "Waiting For Superman". Change CAN happen, private schools are doing it. Good teachers CAN make the difference.

Not one teacher in my daughter's private school has an attitude like that. They don't make accusations or excuses why children are not learning. They find SOLUTIONS. Because parents are paying for a quality education! Public schools have no competition to drive them out of business because they are guaranteed the public money. If their paychecks were dependent on excellence in education, not test scores which are obviously being skewed, things would change!

My daughter has her assignments written in a communication folder every day. She is in 3rd grade. More elaborate assignments are either emailed or given out as a handout. Weekly overviews of what is being taught are sent every other week. Parents participate in the education when it pertains to their skill set. Community members come into the classrooms and give hands on real educational lectures. When a student struggles, additional help is immediately administered via pull outs (with no red tape or assessment necessary). If a student excels, they are allowed to take higher coursework. A first grader comes to second grade class for math, etc. This is how education SHOULD be. IT takes a village, but the public school wants to keep the villagers out and do it their own bureacratic way.

One would imagine that if you "know" Asperger's so well, you'd know how to spell it. Just sayin'.

Go ahead, throw rotten fruit at me. It's a valid point, though.

Our public school does all of the above because in a large county like ours, with over a dozen school districts within a half hour drive, it IS a competitive market. There are many ways to get your child into someone else's school, if you feel you have to. Many of our districts have been cutting edge responsive with ASD's, and maybe that is part of it; hard to say; or maybe most parents here are smarter and more effectively demanding than in many places in the US (we do have extraordinary high education levels in the parents).

But public schools ARE bound by laws the well intentioned create, that don't always work as planned. Sometimes they really cannot do the simple and logical thing, and you have to rely on brave teachers and administrators willing to buck the law on the assumption no one will sanction them for serving a child's needs. But I feel for them in those situations, it is a lot to ask of someone. And it is a burden private schools carry less often, that can work out for the better or for the worse depending on the people and the situation.