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InThisTogether
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25 Sep 2015, 6:29 pm

I do not think you are mistaken to be nervous about her pre-occupation with having a baby. What concerns me about it is that it appears that she may believe that having a baby will "fix" some kind of perceived "deficit" in her life. It seems like maybe she has a idealized perception of parenthood--perhaps the exact opposite problem you have. For as much as I enjoy being a parent, it is not to be idealized or romanticized. It is TOUGH WORK. There is really nothing much that is easy about it. And I definitely do not see it as a solution to any problem, perceived or real.

It could also be culturally based. Even in the US (I say "even" because we tend to think of ourselves as "advanced"-- very ethnocentric, I know), there are subcultures that believe that if you haven't had a kid by the time you are 25, there is something wrong with you. Hence my unwed 20 year old niece, who's mom is very happy and excited that she is pregnant.

And there is also the possibility that you are making way more out of this than she is. I, myself, am very guilty of this. It is not infrequent that I am ruminating about something and becoming preoccupied about it, based on what I think the other person/people are thinking, when the reality is, they aren't really thinking about it very much or even at all. I can think of numerous examples of when I thought something was really a "big deal," but in the end of it all, it wasn't a big deal and sometimes wasn't even a minor concern to the other person in the grand scheme of things.

I respect you a great deal for coming here and exploring it with a commitment to being open to the input of others. It shows a level of maturity that I think you should give yourself credit for.


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RetroGamer87
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25 Sep 2015, 11:40 pm

momsparky wrote:
Nobody (and nothing) is actually irresistibly attractive
Not quite but she's very pretty. I'm surprised that a girl as beautiful as her would fall for an average looking guy like me.

You're right that I can't/won't give in to lack of impulse control but I had to say that to myself so I could start thinking rationally. I have to start thinking but then I start over thinking. I think of strange things like "If I save too much for the future I won't enjoy any of my money before I die" or "Too much long term planning will rob me of my ability to enjoy the moment".
momsparky wrote:
If you and this girl can't get on the same page on this issue (the issue being a combination of parenthood in the near future and access to sex,) this is not the relationship for you, nor is it the relationship for her. Parenthood is forever no matter what...relationships, not always.
I know. I really considered dumping her so she could have more time to find a guy who shares her passion for parenting. Then I thought "What if later I decide I want to have kids, than I would have dumped her for nothing". I don't want to get her into a relationship with me that's not right for her, even if it's right for me. I care about her too much to take her dreams away from her.

When I talk about it with her, she's very understanding and says not to worry about it. Then she says we should talk about it later, in a few months. At first I thought she was brushing me off but maybe she just wanted to give me more time to think instead of letting force myself into a decision right now. I felt like I had to decide straight away so I'm not wasting her time. She doesn't feel that way.

If I have kids with anyone I really want to be her. She's so patient and loving and selfless to a fault. She'd make a wonderful mother. Maybe that's why she wants kids so much.


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underwater
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25 Sep 2015, 11:54 pm

InThisTogether wrote:
I respect you a great deal for coming here and exploring it with a commitment to being open to the input of others. It shows a level of maturity that I think you should give yourself credit for.


This. And I don't think you are overthinking it, just sometimes hurrying too much for a solution. It's appropriate to consider all options, listen to advice and take time to mull it over when you have to make a major life decision.



RetroGamer87
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26 Sep 2015, 12:23 am

InThisTogether wrote:
I do not think you are mistaken to be nervous about her pre-occupation with having a baby. What concerns me about it is that it appears that she may believe that having a baby will "fix" some kind of perceived "deficit" in her life.
You are not wrong. She said her father on his deathbed made her promise that she would get married and have kids when she turned 25 (I'm not sure if this means by 25 or from 25 onwards.
InThisTogether wrote:
It seems like maybe she has a idealized perception of parenthood--perhaps the exact opposite problem you have.
Maybe so. She seems to have an idealized perception of getting a job. When I say I'm worried about money she says she will work. Her work-ethic is laudable but she doesn't seem to get that for an unskilled worker, she needs more than a willingness to work before someone will hire her. In today's economy her getting a job would be about as likely as a very unlikely thing happening.

As for my perception, you may be right. I may be biased. I tend to look at the world through deep blue glasses and that could be just in inaccurate as her habit of looking at the world through rose red glasses.
InThisTogether wrote:
For as much as I enjoy being a parent, it is not to be idealized or romanticized. It is TOUGH WORK. There is really nothing much that is easy about it. And I definitely do not see it as a solution to any problem, perceived or real.
Well I'm glad that you enjoy being a parent and I don't doubt it's tough. I'm hoping that a burden shared will be a burden lightened. One of my concerns is that it will be a fair few years before we get to the fun with, with creativity studios and other hobbies. Also money. I'm still worried about the expense. What the the main costs of caring for a baby?

Another thing that worried me is education. The schools in my neighborhood suck. I know because I went to them. I guess any teacher with enough talent to get into a better school, will. The only ones who'd be teaching in a poor neighborhood are that ones that are left. I found the teachers to be impatient, apathetic and sometimes plain wrong. Also it might have something to do with the schools being funded by property taxes. The schools were underfunded and taught far fewer subjects compared with schools in other neighborhoods (or sometimes the same subjects in a much later grade)

I think they may be improving but the new national curriculum is trying their hardest to reverse that trend. It seems to be designed to waste as much student time as possible and since it's national there's no escaping from it in any school, private or public. When I went to school the curriculum was determined by the state government, not the federal government. The new national curriculum seeks to devote about 60% of class time on propaganda.

Also some of the schools have a worrying attitude towards modern technology. They want to use it is much as possible without understanding how to make the best use of it. I've spoken to several high school students and some of them said they were required to write long essays on an iPad. An iPad? It doesn't have a keyboard. Who can type 60 WPM on a touch screen?

I must determine which schools have a bring your own device option so I'm not forced to pay for an iPad, a dodgy PC or worst of all, a Macintosh. If I pay for it I should be able to choose the device. Also I can't stand the idea of the school having admin control over the computer (admin control should be mine). But it's probably too early to think about schools, the child hasn't been conceived yet.
InThisTogether wrote:
It could also be culturally based. Even in the US (I say "even" because we tend to think of ourselves as "advanced"-- very ethnocentric, I know), there are subcultures that believe that if you haven't had a kid by the time you are 25, there is something wrong with you.
You may be right about culture. A while back she was saying that 24 was very old to not yet be married and that her parents were waiting for her to get married. I spoke to her stepdad and he said it would give him and her mother much joy to see her get married and live a happy life with me. He didn't say anything about being in a hurry or being concerned about her age.
InThisTogether wrote:
And there is also the possibility that you are making way more out of this than she is. I, myself, am very guilty of this. It is not infrequent that I am ruminating about something and becoming preoccupied about it, based on what I think the other person/people are thinking, when the reality is, they aren't really thinking about it very much or even at all. I can think of numerous examples of when I thought something was really a "big deal," but in the end of it all, it wasn't a big deal and sometimes wasn't even a minor concern to the other person in the grand scheme of things.
Again your are right. As I said I can only give my own biased account of what I think happened and what I think she meant. I tend to worry too much and overthink things. She has a different philosophy. I get worried and ask her dozens of questions. She says not to worry and I wonder why she's fobbing me off instead of answering my questions. Maybe when she says not to worry that is her answer.
InThisTogether wrote:
I respect you a great deal for coming here and exploring it with a commitment to being open to the input of others. It shows a level of maturity that I think you should give yourself credit for.
I will. When I was younger parenthood was something I outright dismissed. Now I think it's wrong to dismiss something without examining the evidence and as my history teacher used to say, the best evidence is first hand accounts.


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RetroGamer87
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26 Sep 2015, 12:28 am

underwater wrote:
And I don't think you are overthinking it, just sometimes hurrying too much for a solution. It's appropriate to consider all options, listen to advice and take time to mull it over when you have to make a major life decision.
Yes I was. It's a complex decision and before I thought I had to decide straight away. I don't and GF doesn't expect me to. I probably shouldn't have demanded so many answers from her when it now seems clear to me that she needed more time to think about things as well. I shouldn't have put so much pressure on her but fortunately she's very forgiving.


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momsparky
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26 Sep 2015, 11:19 am

I agree about your willingness to seek answers: to that end, I really, really urge you to get some couples counseling. We are all taking shots in the dark here - a counselor will be able to look at things from both sides of the question and give you specific answers that are more pertinent. Everybody entering into a long-term, committed relationship involving the possibility of kids should do this, IMO (and many religious institutions actually require it.)

I'd hate for you to simply break up with this woman, or conversely to decide to have kids with her based on anything we've talked about here. I think all we have established for certain is that you have many legitimate questions that deserve thoughtful answers from someone who can look at the facts on both sides, and who doesn't have a vested interest in a specific outcome. There are ways to find a relationship counselor for free if you don't have the resources to pay (Australia has an entire government-funded program: http://www.rasa.org.au/about/.)