A Savage Savantry
Ah, the savant sauvage, that mystic force. Who has a savant skill that's a bit more savage? I don't mean counting cards, naming the day of a given date, memorizing phone books, or performing arithmetic on very large numbers. I refer here to something more primordial, something German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche might have called a will to power.
It might be butchering meat, hunting quail on the prairie, or spilling confidence all over the place. It is a following of one's nature.
There is no such thing. People really need to read up on savant syndrome before they post such nonsense.
Savant is a term used for people WITH Savant Syndrome, just as autistic is a term used for people WITH autism. These things you mention by definition ARE not savant skills in any way, shape, or form. If someone came in and said something highly inaccurate about AS, many people would take serious offense to it and try to correct the inaccuracies. I have Savant Syndrome and I take the same offense when people misuse the term savant, or speculate based on stereotypical traits, leading others to misunderstand it as well.
And people wonder why I am hesitant to discuss my abilities here??? It seems there is no one that can accurately comprehend the details of such a discussion. I do not mean to offend anyone, but I am getting frustrated with this wave of the misise of the term savant and REALLY wish people would educate themselves about the matter before they go carelessly tossing the phrase around.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they call me,
Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.
I looked up will to power and it has both positive and negative aspects. However, this is what I found:
a will to dominate, to rule, control, and force one's will upon others.
source:
http://www.uta.edu/english/apt/fritz/aw ... power.html
There were also connotations that will to power means discharging one's own life-force, essentially suggesting that it is in the nature of such being to commit suicide.
Is this really what you meant?
_________________
Raised by Wolves
if you are going through hell, keep going.
Winston Churchill
BTW
I didn't answer the survey because to me the question has little to do with Asperger's.
I don't think I have savant syndrome. Not sure I have savant skills. Guess if I did, they would be mechanical, computer and horticultural things.
Mechanical things seem to like me and I like them. I can fix almost anything.
Same with computers, printers, and to a limited extent, software glitches and bugs.
I can grow almost anything and somehow I know the right thing to do without having to consult a book. But this could be due to having grown up with a strong connection to nature.
_________________
Raised by Wolves
if you are going through hell, keep going.
Winston Churchill
The will to power has nothing to do with the autistic spectrum or savant skills. It's a combination of extroversion and confidence: the ability to force/manipulate others to conform to your desires.
I don't have it in the classical sense, but the concept fascinates me.
Discharging your life force, in the context of the will to power, doesn't imply suicide, it implies using the force of your personality to shape others' to reflect it. The idea is that you have so much that spilling it into others takes you from an unbearable state to a balanced one, instead of draining you and leaving you empty.
I hope this helps, DeepThought, to cut down the broad use of the term on WP:
Savant Syndrome is a rare, but spectacular, condition in which persons with various developmental disorders, including autistic disorder, have astonishing islands of ability, brilliance or talent that stand in stark, markedly incongruous contrast to overall limitations. The condition can be congenital (genetic or inborn), or can be acquired later in childhood, or even in adults.
The savant skills co-exist with, or are superimposed upon, various developmental disabilities including autistic disorder, or other conditions such as mental retardation or brain injury or disease that occurs before (pre-natal) during (peri-natal) or after birth (post-natal), or even later in childhood or adult life. The extraordinary skills are always linked with prodigious memory of a special type — exceedingly deep but very, very narrow.
Approximately one in ten (10%) of persons with autistic disorder have some savant skills. In other forms of development disability, mental retardation or brain injury, savant skills occur in less than 1% of such persons (approximately 1:2000 in persons with mental retardation).
Since these other forms of mental disability are much more common than autistic disorder however, it turns out that approximately 50% of persons with savant syndrome have autistic disorder, and the other 50% have some other form of developmental disability, mental retardation or brain injury or disease. Thus not all savants are autistic, and not all autistic persons are savants.
Savant skills exist over a spectrum of abilities. The most common savant abilities are called splinter skills. These include behaviors such as obsessive preoccupation with, and memorization of, music and sports trivia, license plate numbers, maps, historical facts, or obscure items such as vacuum cleaner motor sounds, for example. Talented savants are those persons in whom musical, artistic, mathematical or other special skills are more prominent and highly honed, usually within an area of single expertise, and are very conspicuous when viewed against their overall handicap.
The term prodigious savant is reserved for those very rare persons in this already uncommon condition where the special skill or ability is so outstanding that it would be spectacular even if it were to occur in a non-handicapped person. There are probably fewer than 50 prodigious savants living worldwide at the present time who would meet this high threshold of special skill.
Particularly striking is the consistent observation also over this past century that savant skills typically, and curiously, are generally confined to only about five general areas of expertise — music, art, lightning calculating or other mathematical skills, calendar calculating and mechanical/spatial skills.
This very limited, but spectacular, array of special skills is noteworthy considering the much wider palette of skills in the human repertoire, and the rarity of the obscure skill of calendar calculating in the general population, which seems an ability almost universal, innately so, among savants.
Music is the generally the most common savant skill-usually playing piano by ear and almost always with perfect pitch. Other percussion instruments such as marimba or drums can be mastered as well, but much less frequently. Musical performance abilities predominate, but outstanding composing skills have been documented as well, most often linked to performance ability, but not necessarily so. The triad of mental disability, blindness and musical genius occurs with a curious, conspicuous frequency in reports over this past century, particularly when one considers the relative rarity of each of those circumstances individually.
Artistic talent, usually painting or drawing, is seen next most frequently. Other forms of artistic talent can occur as well, such as sculpting. Lightning calculating or other mathematical skills, such as the ability to compute multi-digit prime numbers contrasted with the inability to perform even simple arithmetic, has often been reported. Mechanical ability, constructing or repairing intricate machines or motors for example, or spatial skills such as intricate map and route memorizing, or being able to compute distances with precise accuracy just from visualization, do occur, but are seen somewhat less frequently.
Calendar calculating is curiously and conspicuously common among savants, particularly considering the rarity of that obscure skill in the general population. Beyond being able to name the day of the week that a date will occur on in any particular year, calendar calculating includes being able to name all the years in the next 100 in which Easter will fall on March 23rd, for example, or all the years in the next 20 when July 4 will fall on a Tuesday. The so-called 'calculating twins' reported extensively in the literature, have a calendar calculating span of over 40000 years backward or forward in time. They also remember the weather for every day of their adult life.
Other skills are occasionally seen including multilingual acquisition ability or other unusual language (polyglot) skills, exquisite sensory discrimination in smell or touch, perfect appreciation of passing time without access to a clock face, or outstanding knowledge in specific fields such as neurophysiology, statistics, history or navigation, to name a few. While always controversial, there have been some reports of extra-sensory perception skills occurring in savants as well.
Typically a particular one of these skills occurs singly in each person with savant syndrome. However in some instances multiple skills occur in the same person. Regardless of the type of skill, it is always combined with prodigious memory, and it is this special kind of memory-extraordinarily deep but very, very narrow — that cuts across all the various special skills and welds the condition of savant syndrome together.
When Dr. Down originally named the condition idiot savant, he linked its name with a classification of IQ of less than 25, but almost all reported cases have occurred in persons with an IQ above 40. However a low measured IQ score, or 'mental retardation' either as a symptom or separate disorder, is not what determines whether a person is or is not a savant. Instead the term savant syndrome encompasses a number of different mental disabilities including, but not limited to, the separate disorder of mental retardation itself. When applied to savant syndrome, the term 'mental disability' can include disorders as Autism, Asperger's, Hyperlexia or Williams Syndrome, for example.
In some of these persons measured IQ can be normal or even superior, although when that is the case, usually the IQ sub-scores show a wide scatter among the various sub-tests that make up the overall IQ test battery with some sub-tests showing severe limitations and other showing extremely high scores. Thus a low IQ score, while often present in savant syndrome, is not necessarily the case in all instances, and it is not a finding essential or requisite to savant syndrome. Some savants do score in the normal or superior range on commonly used IQ tests, or at least on some of the sub-tests that make up the overall IQ test battery.
IQ is a measure of so-called 'general intelligence'. While some scatter is common in most persons on the sub-tests of the IQ test battery, sub-test scores do tend to cluster in certain ranges for a given individual producing, when averaged, an overall 'general' intelligence score, or IQ. That IQ score does tend to be correlated with a general level of overall intellectual functioning. But the very wide scatter of abilities seen in some savants on the IQ sub-scores, which is much more pronounced than in most persons, has raised the question of whether it would be more accurate to view all persons as a series of multiple intelligences, rather than having what has been designated general intelligence, or IQ.
Indeed some investigators view savants as refuting the notion of 'general intelligence' and argue, instead, that each of us have multiple intelligences and testing & measurement of "IQ" in all persons should be revised to reflect that reality.
Further, in viewing 'mental retardation' one needs to differentiate between 'actual' retardation (measured IQ below 70) and 'functional' retardation. The latter can occur in someone with seemingly normal or even superior intellectual capacity whose mental disability, from whatever etiology, causes them to function at a much lower level over all than one might expect from estimated or even measured IQ.
It is not uncommon to see some autistic persons, for example, function at a superior level in some areas such as mathematics, verbal skills or memory, but be so severely disabled in other areas so as to 'function' at much lower level overall. The present IQ sub-tests, such as digit span, for example, are not sufficiently tailored to realistically assess certain areas of superior function in savants, and do need to be revised and tailored accordingly to be able to get a true measure of savant capabilities for comparative studies in the area of 'intelligence'.
In summary, measured IQ levels in savant syndrome most often are below 70. However while savant syndrome can occur in persons where Mental Retardation is the basic CNS disorder, savant syndrome can also be seen in persons with IO's below 70 as a finding or symptom where the basic developmental disorder is instead Autism, Asperger's, Hyperlexia, PDD or Williams Syndrome, for example, or a number of other conditions following CNS injury or disease.
While it is true that in most persons with savant syndrome measured IQ is below 70, savant syndrome includes a number of mental disorders in which IQ function, in scattered areas of functioning at least, can be normal or even superior. In short, savant syndrome is not synonymous with, nor limited to mental retardation, and in some persons with savant syndrome IQ can be in the normal, or even superior range.
http://www.autisticsociety.org/autism-article163.html
DeepThought, add whatever else isn't listed or correct anything which isn't right to your knowledge.
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My Science blog, Science Over a Cuppa - http://insolemexumbra.wordpress.com/
My partner's autism science blog, Cortical Chauvinism - http://corticalchauvinism.wordpress.com/
Sophist, thanks.
That is the same information from the link I posted on the other thread.
http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant/faq.cfm
I am by far no expert on Savant Syndrome (my companion understands some things about it better than I do), but I think the information on that FAQ is accurate enough for anyone to get a basic understanding of it without going into all of the various theories and technicalities.
Part of the reason I get upset with the misuse of the word in places like WP is because I know that many people here could have some sort of savant ability and I want people to understand the difference between a savant skill and something a person is just good at. I have encountered some people that are offended by the word "savant" because they recall that it used to be used in conjunction with the word "idiot." However, I am not offended by either. To hear the term "idiot savant" and it makes perfect sense to me because that is the mold I fit.
Savant literally is defined as a learned person and I think everyone has an idea of what idiot means. I am saying this, not to boast, but to explain why I have no problem with that term (idiot savant). Throughout all of my life, I have been called a genius because of my musical abilities (at least when I wasn't going through periods where I refused to even listen to music). I can compose very complex pieces extremely quickly and I can play pieces from memory on almost any instrument I am interested in playing (my companion may say that this is an understament though). However, technically I know very little about what I am doing. I only know the names of basic chords and have only recently (since learning about the importance of developing savant skills) learned basic scales. I have never been able to read music, though many times I have tried very hard to do so. Trying to engage me in a technical conversation about music is like trying to discuss the theory of relativity with a hamster. Often people would hear me perform and say I am a genius (my doctor included). Then some of these people (almost always other musicians) would try to talk to me about the technical aspects of my performance and I would be lost. I was not able to get into university level music school because even though my performing skills were highly advanced, when asked to descibe what I was doing in technical terms (music theory), I could not. Hence, my lack of technical knowledge correctly indicates that I am an idiot in that area and I admit it. This does not mean that I don't want to know more than I do, but when I start to explore in an effort to try to expand what little knowledge I do have, I basically end up saying "forget it, I am just going to play (music)."
When I was younger I had 2 record labels offer me contracts and a major label express interest in me, meaning that they would consider signing me if I could prove to be a sellable package. This is where I failed. My mom had hired a prominent entertainment attorney who said that I need to put a band together and move to NYC. I tried my hardest to assemble a band, but the social difficulties that we are familar with as far as autism goes just worked against me. Eventually I got discouraged and gave up that idea. My point is that Savant Syndrome can appear to be fascinating, but in reality it can be frustrating and sometimes lead to major disappointments. There is a dark side to it that only experience can reveal, but I supect not every savant experiences the dark side of it.
My family now knows why I had the difficulties I did. They now say that had they known about my autism and Savant Syndrome when I was young, then they would have sought out special instruction for me. I come from a family of musicians (actually 2 families, but that's for another topic), so they sort of took my interest in music and my rapid ability to learn certain things on different instruments for granted. However, the musicians in my family were always criticizing me to my mom because I had no technical ability and I was not responsive to the few lesson I did take. Now my family is trying to help me in the areas where I was unable to help myself, in order that others may be exposed to what only happens inside of me.
Though I babbled yet again, I hope that clarifies my perspective somewhat and helps people know that even though the textbooks and web sites desribe some things about savant syndrome that there is a more human aspect to it that few people are able to communicate.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they call me,
Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.
I have an extreme gift in art, though I have some hesitation in calling it a Savant Skill simply because I don't know if my level of functioning is poor enough to make such a skill unusual.
Also, I don't always draw/paint. It is something which I am very able to do, but the interest to do it comes in spurts like my other interests. Though I have been mostly known my entire life throughout my schools as "the artist".
But again, I have some hesitation in calling it a savant skill because other people have artistic ability as well who fall into my IQ range and even below. But then again, they do not have a PDD. I also do not have a prodigious memory and I have difficulty drawing ANYTHING from memory.
Suffice it to say at the least, I have a talent for art.
_________________
My Science blog, Science Over a Cuppa - http://insolemexumbra.wordpress.com/
My partner's autism science blog, Cortical Chauvinism - http://corticalchauvinism.wordpress.com/
Savant Syndrome is not determined by IQ, or the actual degree of functioning that a person has. They say that app. 10% of all Aspies have Savant Syndrome. Savant Syndrome is a spectrum condition like autism and can be in varying degrees. Many people with it only have one skill that would be considered a savant skill, while others have serveral skills. However, the types of skills seem to be restricted to certain areas.
If the skill itself is unusual enough to be considered a savant skill it will be extremely apparent to anyone that encounters it (although not necessarilly the person with the skill because he, or she may be taking the skill for granted). It may not be apparent that it is a savant encounter to someone who knows nothing about savant syndrome, but it would be immediately recognized as being amazing. Before knowing anything at all about Savant Syndrome, people often called me a genius when they encountered certain things I could do that they could not explain. I was never comfortable with being called a genius because inside I knew that I had no idea what I was technically doing. I am often told that most people go to school for many years to learn how to do master of the things that I am just able to master almost instantly. with some things the memory involvement i nmy abilities is very apparent, with other things it is not so apparent because I may simply be performing something that I only heard, or saw someone else do many years prior to me just doing it. Without remembering when, or where I witnessed what I do it is harder to associate the memory aspect to it. However, this is rare as I usually always remember exaclty where and when I saw, or heard something.
Though I have often been wrongly called a genius throughout my life, upon close examination a person familar with Savant Syndrome can see the finer details of the involvement of my memory and less involvement of actual knowledge. I can isloate certain abilities and divide them into the category of savant skill and non-savant skill, based on HOW that skill is manifested.
I suspect that I do have some learning disabilities. With many things it is as if there is a barrier between what I read, or hear and my ability to process that information (like math and trying to learn how to read sheet music). That's why Savant Syndrome is considered the only explanation as to why I am able to do some things on a genius level without actually being able to understand what I am doing.
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they call me,
Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.
This is present in me to some degree. If I have a idea, I will force it on others by using all the persuasion I have. It is not normal for me, but it seems to come quite naturaly and others in my life have noticed that I seem to be more "alive" than most everyone, when it comes to ideation time. Clumsy, yes, but effective.
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All your bass are belong to us.
I have a skill in poetry and in translating foreign poetry for which one of my college professors has been attempting to convince me to go out of town to attend a graduate school which offers both creative writing AND translation (for the MFA). But I have been adament and unwilling to agree to do so. She has said I am the best translator for Rainer Maria Rilke that she has ever read.
I don't know quite how I do it. Sure, I study it and have progressively gotten better, too. However, I hear metrical musics to poetry which I find pleasant and try to match and thus my work flows.
I also was never taught art but grew as I discovered different media. I still don't know about Savant Syndrome. Maybe. Maybe not.
[/inflating ego] LOL
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_________________
My Science blog, Science Over a Cuppa - http://insolemexumbra.wordpress.com/
My partner's autism science blog, Cortical Chauvinism - http://corticalchauvinism.wordpress.com/
I also was never taught art but grew as I discovered different media. I still don't know about Savant Syndrome. Maybe. Maybe not.
It took almost a year from when we first suspected that I have Savant Syndrome to when my doctor proclaimed that I do. There is really no officially defined DX criteria for Savant Syndrome. For a doctor to say that someone has it then there has to be a lot of comparissons made between what is established as the known commonalities of Savant Syndrome and the characteristics of it that the (possible) savant has. In my case, some things are obvious, while other things are still being looked into, such as my verbal skills and ability to instantly create poetry (I rarely do it anymore, but if I am in the right mood I can have a whole conversastion with someone as if I were a Dr. Seuss book).
_________________
The Rhymin' Red Rover, that's what they call me,
Too old for a sailin', too young fo' the sea;
Set sail fo' a sunset, to a land that is free,
I'm the Rhymin' Red Rover, and that's where I'll be.

