I feel that my feelings towards others are abnormal.

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Joe90
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10 Nov 2020, 7:49 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I feel like, most of the time, bullies bully because they want to bully. Their intentions are not good. I would never give a pass to a bully, even though the bully might have had a tough home life or childhood or whatever. There's no excuse for bullying.

I feel like a considerable amount of empathy to certain people is based on motivation. And, like you said, on "common ground."


People say that bullies are responsible for all their actions, but I don't think that is always true. Or maybe to a victim's view of the bullies, it feels that the bullies have no clue at all of how the victim really feels. I remember at college the girls were all bullying this boy with learning difficulties, and because I was actually accepted by these girls, I was expected to join in and bully him too. But I just couldn't do it. I felt too guilty. The poor boy was sitting alone at a table in the canteen while all the others sat on another table laughing at him, calling him names and killing his self-esteem. He looked so upset and rejected, and I physically felt his emotional pain. I looked at the other girls who were having the time on their lives hurling insults at this boy who didn't deserve any of this, and I thought, "how come they don't feel guilty like I do?" I admit that I did find this boy quite annoying and quite embarrassing, but I still did not want to bully him for it, being so it was obvious that he had learning difficulties. I did tell the other girls that they were hurting his feelings, but their reply was "he is so stupid, he doesn't even have feelings like us!"
I told them not to be mean but it was like they just couldn't help themselves. I felt even more sorry for him. I am just unable to bully. I never have bullied in my life. How do you bully exactly? Because I just can't do it. It's too...mean.


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RightGalaxy
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10 Nov 2020, 7:53 pm

That's aspergers. If you were a narcissist, you wouldn't even bother to self-reflect. Try this book: "Do You Know Who I Am?" by Dr. Ramini Dervasula It will help you sort things out.



Joe90
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11 Nov 2020, 6:15 pm

I do think though that no matter how much we discuss about NT empathy vs autistic empathy, it always turns out that the burden does fall on the autistic person. If you're an autistic you must be able to be 100% kind, caring, and understanding of everyone at any given time no matter what, to be admitted to have empathy. If you're an NT, you can be selfish, mean, callous, uncaring, and not understanding of other's feelings, but still be admitted to have empathy. I'm NOT saying that all NTs are like that, before anyone accuses me of bigoting NTs.

It seems that the definition of empathy alters depending on whether you're talking about a person on the autism spectrum or not (or any neurotype that has ''unable to empathise'' listed in the criteria). It's a bit like calling a spade a spade if a man holds one but calling the same spade an ice-cream if a woman holds it.
I hope this analogy has actually explained what I've been trying to say.


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idntonkw
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12 Nov 2020, 12:52 am

Whale_Tuune wrote:
For a long time, I've been afraid that I don't feel the right way about other people. I feel largely numb to others, even people that I enjoy being around. It's difficult for me to be interested in other people's interests, even though I know that I need to be to be fair to them. I like other people and everything, but I rarely feel acute affection. More like I feel a fondness for other people or admiration for them.

I have a hard time empathizing. I used to think I lacked empathy, but I later realized that it's more that I can only empathize with experiences that I myself have been through. So if someone discusses being abused by a doctor or shunned by peers, I can empathize, for example. So there are certain situations that I have been through that pull very strongly on my empathy. But if there are situations that I haven't experienced (ie, a death of a loved one) I am concerned for the other person, but I don't feel much empathy.

I used to think I was a narcissist or had ASPD, but I've read that those types don't feel much guilt. Okay, I feel a lot of guilt all of the time. If I think that I've hurt someone else's feelings, I can't stop thinking about it. It's not that I'm worried that that person won't like me (though that's true too), I just feel really bad. I revisit painful memories of all sorts, including ones where I did something wrong. So I feel remorse a lot. But it's really hard for me to feel empathy for people whose experiences are different from mine and it's hard to feel strong affection on a day-to-day basis for people. Even when I feel love for people it's wrapped in guilt (am I doing enough to make them happy?)

So it feels like I feel empathy mainly when:

1. Someone else has been through what I have been through.
2. I've done something wrong to them.
3. I love them (but like also I feel guilty)

When someone is talking about something I haven't been through, I want to be a good listener but it feels mechanical and not natural. Am I a narcissist or are my feelings normal? I really do not want to be a bad person.


So for a woman it is unusual not feel affection to anyone. But you are on the spectrum, so you deviate from that for that reason. I think that is all your problem. You are not a narcissist at all, though maybe a tiny bit self absorbed, though still not a narcissist. Not a sociopath, although maybe a slight bit. Not really a Schizoid personality.

I think you just deviate from the standard female automatic affection to certain people/animals/babies, and you also are blind and don't relate and don't vibe on the same emotional vibe with people due to a limited understanding of context and what they go through and problem with communication.. basically what Temple Grandin describes.

You are going to have to learn to live with these limitations. I think you are beating a dead horse trying to overcome them. You can improve and should still try to improve by having new experiences, trying new social things, trying to improve yourself through different therapy or anything you can think of especially before the age of 25 as your brain is still pliable, but ultimately after some improvement and having little breakthroughs, you will be almost back at square one.. you will never be normal like you wish.. sorry..

Try to explore your artistic side - dance, drawing, fashion, reading, acting, music - anything artistic that you observe in others or come up with yourself will help by improving your feeling.. inspiration basically. But ultimately, you will never be normal like you wish. But you can improve through experimenting with different things.

If you were a narcissist or a sociopath, you would not feel guilty or feel that you are missing out or not being fair to people by being this way. They still wonder about those things and they care out of curiosity, but they don't feel guilty about it.

Try reading Russian Classical Literature, try learning a dance or taking a social dance class, take up a sport like sprinting or jogging, learn about fashion, learn to play an instrument, take an acting class.. all these things are attempts, and maybe one or two can help you improve a little bit or at least distract you and give you positive experiences with people where you won't feel so bad. You won't get anywhere by sitting and pondering these things. You can't think your way out of these things, you have to have experiences from experimental actions.

It sounds like you are getting in trouble with people, and seeing the difference between people and you, and feeling bad that you cannot have friendships and socialize like others do, and when you try, you have difficulty and don't get it right and you see it.. one thing to remember is just because others can do it, does not mean that you can do everything they can do. You may only be able to do 20% of the socializing and communication, and be terrible and incompetent and do many things wrong at social aspect you are not familiar with.

Also, you sound like you have some motherly and womanly feelings toward people, and you may be overestimating how much caring and love you owe people to provide. A tiny bit is enough! ;)