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goldfish21
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08 Jan 2021, 12:35 pm

Pelosi announced yesterday that they’re pursuing removal of trump from office ASAP under the 25th amendment and if republicans block it they’ll initiate impeachment proceedings. I read some headline that said that they could impeach And as a condition of the impeachment make it so that donald trump cannot ever run for public office again. You’d think with removal under the 25th they could also do the same, no?

Either way, this is most certainly entertaining & I look forward to the trump organization getting RICO’d and watching these idiots lose all that they’ve stolen. 8)


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Fnord
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08 Jan 2021, 12:37 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
Will it be a 25>45 or 2nd impeachment?
I sure as Shinola hope so!

Image


:wink: See?  I can tell the difference!


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goldfish21
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08 Jan 2021, 2:13 pm

“At least five people are dead as a result, including a Capitol Hill police officer who was reportedly bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher by the MAGA "law and order" crowd while they breached the halls of Congress.”

:(

https://www.mic.com/p/if-democrats-real ... t-54791002


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Feyokien
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08 Jan 2021, 2:19 pm

goldfish21 wrote:
“At least five people are dead as a result, including a Capitol Hill police officer who was reportedly bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher by the MAGA "law and order" crowd while they breached the halls of Congress.”

:(

https://www.mic.com/p/if-democrats-real ... t-54791002


https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

Trump has to resign or be removed. He has forfeited the right to leave under normal terms. This cannot be pardoned. Apologies and the 'good boy' act are meaningless. He went too far.



Fnord
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08 Jan 2021, 2:22 pm

Mr. Trump should be unable to pardon himself, since it would violate 5 CFR § 2635.702 - "Use of public office for private gain" ...

35.702: An employee shall not use his public office for his own private gain, for the endorsement of any product, service or enterprise, or for the private gain of friends, relatives, or persons with whom the employee is affiliated in a nongovernmental capacity, including nonprofit organizations of which the employee is an officer or member, and persons with whom the employee has or seeks employment or business relations.

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but even Ms. Pelosi should be able to make it stick.


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VegetableMan
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08 Jan 2021, 2:29 pm

Feyokien wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
“At least five people are dead as a result, including a Capitol Hill police officer who was reportedly bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher by the MAGA "law and order" crowd while they breached the halls of Congress.”

:(

https://www.mic.com/p/if-democrats-real ... t-54791002


https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

Trump has to resign or be removed. He has forfeited the right to leave under normal terms. This cannot be pardoned. Apologies and the 'good boy' act are meaningless. He went too far.


It SHOULDN'T be pardoned. But I suspect it there is a very strong possibility it will be.


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Feyokien
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08 Jan 2021, 2:33 pm

VegetableMan wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
“At least five people are dead as a result, including a Capitol Hill police officer who was reportedly bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher by the MAGA "law and order" crowd while they breached the halls of Congress.”

:(

https://www.mic.com/p/if-democrats-real ... t-54791002


https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

Trump has to resign or be removed. He has forfeited the right to leave under normal terms. This cannot be pardoned. Apologies and the 'good boy' act are meaningless. He went too far.


It SHOULDN'T be pardoned. But I suspect it there is a very strong possibility it will be.


I agreed with you until the police office who got bludgeoned by a fire extinguisher died. I think its impossible for them to just gloss it over now. I hope.



VegetableMan
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08 Jan 2021, 2:46 pm

Feyokien wrote:
VegetableMan wrote:
Feyokien wrote:
goldfish21 wrote:
“At least five people are dead as a result, including a Capitol Hill police officer who was reportedly bludgeoned to death with a fire extinguisher by the MAGA "law and order" crowd while they breached the halls of Congress.”

:(

https://www.mic.com/p/if-democrats-real ... t-54791002


https://apnews.com/article/capitol-police-death-brian-sicknick-46933a828d7b12de7e3d5620a8a04583

Trump has to resign or be removed. He has forfeited the right to leave under normal terms. This cannot be pardoned. Apologies and the 'good boy' act are meaningless. He went too far.


It SHOULDN'T be pardoned. But I suspect it there is a very strong possibility it will be.


I agreed with you until the police office who got bludgeoned by a fire extinguisher died. I think its impossible for them to just gloss it over now. I hope.


I'm sure they will prosecute the rioters; just not Trump.


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08 Jan 2021, 3:57 pm

Here is the draft of the articles of impeachment (my emphasis added):
https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... ection.pdf

Quote:
RESOLUTION Impeaching Donald John Trump, President of the United States, for high crimes and misdemeanors.

Resolved, That Donald John Trump, President of the United States, is impeached for high crimes and misdemeanors and that the following article of impeachment be exhibited to the United States Senate:

Article of impeachment exhibited by the House of Representatives of the United States of America in the name of itself and of the people of the United States of America, against Donald John Trump, President of the United States of America, in maintenance and support of its impeachment against him for high crimes and misdemeanors.

ARTICLE I: INCITEMENT OF INSURRECTION
The Constitution provides that the House of Representatives ‘‘shall have the sole Power of Impeachment’’ and that the President ‘‘shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors’’. In his conduct of the office of President of the United States—and in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed— Donald John Trump engaged in high Crimes and Misdemeanors by willfully inciting violence against the Government of the United States, in that:

On January 6, 2021, pursuant to the Twelfth Amendment of the United States Constitution, the Vice President of the United States, the House of Representatives, and the Senate met at the United States Capitol for a Joint Session of Congress to count the votes of the Electoral College. Shortly before the Joint Session commenced, President Trump addressed a crowd of his political supporters nearby. There, he reiterated false claims that ‘‘we won this election, and we won it by a landslide’’. He also willfully made statements that encouraged—and foreseeably resulted in—imminent lawless action at the Capitol. Incited by President Trump, a mob unlawfully breached the Capitol, injured law enforcement personnel, menaced Members of Congress and the Vice President, interfered with the Joint Session’s solemn constitutional duty to certify the election results, and engaged in violent, deadly, destructive, and seditious acts.

President Trump’s conduct on January 6, 2021 was consistent with his prior efforts to subvert and obstruct the certification of the results of the 2020 presidential election. Those prior efforts include, but are not limited to, a phone call on January 2, 2021, in which President Trump urged Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger to ‘‘find’’ enough votes to overturn the Georgia presidential election results and threatened Mr. Raffensperger if he failed to do so.

In all of this, President Trump gravely endangered the security of the United States and its institutions of government. He threatened the integrity of the democratic system, interfered with the peaceful transition of power, and imperiled a coordinate branch of government. He thereby betrayed his trust as President, to the manifest injury of the people of the United States.

Wherefore President Trump, by such conduct, has demonstrated that he will remain a threat to national security, democracy, and the Constitution if allowed to remain in office, and has acted in a manner grossly incompatible with self-governance and the rule of law. President Trump thus warrants impeachment and trial, removal from office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.



The_Walrus
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08 Jan 2021, 4:27 pm

I don’t think they have time to pursue impeachment, and I still think the Senate would vote to acquit. There are currently 99 Senators, 51 of them Republican (Ossoff has not been sworn in, and Loeffler is still sitting in Warnock’s place), so 66 votes are needed for conviction.

Would 18 Republicans vote for conviction? That seems unlikely. Mitt Romney would once again do the right thing. I suspect Lisa Murkowski and Susan Collins would now join him, and Ben Sasse has said he would consider it, but many more? Certainly the Despicable Seven who objected to the results (Cruz, Hawley, Tuberville, Hyde-Smith, Marshall, Rick Scott, and Kennedy) would stick with Trump, but I suspect the majority of the remaining 40 would as well - possibly all of them.



GGPViper
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08 Jan 2021, 4:42 pm

The Democrats may be pushing for impeachment not only to evict Trump (after all, he'll be gone in 12 days), but also to force individual Republican Party representatives and senators to choose sides and put their views on the record for all to see.



Fnord
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08 Jan 2021, 4:48 pm

GGPViper wrote:
The Democrats may be pushing for impeachment not only to evict Trump (after all, he'll be gone in 12 days), but also to force individual Republican Party representatives and senators to choose sides and put their views on the record for all to see.
I think they are also pushing impeachment to prevent Mr. Trump from ever holding a public office again.


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goldfish21
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08 Jan 2021, 5:06 pm

Fnord wrote:
Mr. Trump should be unable to pardon himself, since it would violate 5 CFR § 2635.702 - "Use of public office for private gain" ...

35.702: An employee shall not use his public office for his own private gain, for the endorsement of any product, service or enterprise, or for the private gain of friends, relatives, or persons with whom the employee is affiliated in a nongovernmental capacity, including nonprofit organizations of which the employee is an officer or member, and persons with whom the employee has or seeks employment or business relations.

Yeah, it is a bit of a stretch, but even Ms. Pelosi should be able to make it stick.


Meanwhile, for a brief period, Melania’s jewelry line was advertised on some White House webpage. :lol:


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Fnord
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08 Jan 2021, 5:10 pm

The Trump family motto should be: "Sine Ambitione Ruditatis"

:wink: ("Ambition Without Class")


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goldfish21
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08 Jan 2021, 5:16 pm

Fnord wrote:
GGPViper wrote:
The Democrats may be pushing for impeachment not only to evict Trump (after all, he'll be gone in 12 days), but also to force individual Republican Party representatives and senators to choose sides and put their views on the record for all to see.
I think they are also pushing impeachment to prevent Mr. Trump from ever holding a public office again.


All of this. A police officer was murdered because trump incited violence. These republicans have to now choose between having any chance at keeping their jobs Or going down with the sinking trump ship.

They’re all self serving capitalists. They’re not going to hitch themselves to trump any longer. They’ll cut him loose and beg their constituents to continue voting for them. Except for maybe the most deplorable 7 who’ve already decided that their careers aren’t worth saving.


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