flipflopping beliefs systems

Post Reply New Topic

Sanity is not statistical.

Its not a scientific term either. If a person claims all religious people are nuts he is more likely the nut in societies eyes. My grand mother was very religious, intelligent, non-bigoted, likable person. I would bet my last dollar if you compared her to the person calling all religious people nuts even a group of atheist would label the other guy the nut. The reality is most people are religious thats the norm.

I never claimed it was a scientific term. I was merely making an allusion to one of my favorite books while pointing out the absurdity of your defining sanity in terms of the majority viewpoint. Large numbers of people can be in complete agreement with each other and yet be wrong. Since this thread is about religious beliefs, I will give an example from religion. Christianity and Islam both claim to be absolutely true and both make statements which contradict the other. Therefore, both can not be right. One or the other could be right, or both could be wrong. However, there are millions upon millions of people who believe strongly in each belief system. One or perhaps both of these two large groups is sincere, in agreement with itself (at least on the most fundamental issues) and entirely wrong. Conversely, one person can be alone in their beliefs and yet be right. Galileo found himself alone with the heliocentric solar system, but he turned out to be right. So sanity/insanity can't reasonably be defined in terms of the prevailing opinion.

Being wrong about a fact is not the same as being a nut. There alot people who think hot water freeze faster than cold water. I would not label those people as nuts. They just do not know the truth. But its easy to test. The case of spirituality vs no spiritually can not be tested. Which makes using derogatory names to religious people all the more unfair.

I've always been consistent in my desires. The manifestation of those desires has varied a bit. I was raised Christian, but was very critical of the ideas presented to me in Sunday school. When I was nine I decided I was really Jewish because I could not seem to make myself believe in Christ, but I rather fancied Elijah (ha!). Soon after that point I stopped believing entirely. The thought of a universe with no God disturbed me, however. I had a full blown existential crisis at the tender age of eleven. I kept trying to find reasons to believe... mostly because I was suffering some abuse at the time and I needed somebody to lean on and tell my troubles to.

I kept waffling for years. Thought about becoming a Catholic. Decided against it. Started calling myself an agnostic, then an atheist around age 18. Stayed that way until 21. Converted to Catholicism. Left again just a couple months ago. I like the idea of there being a God, moral absolutes, good/evil, etc., but I have nothing in me to makes me believe it's real. I gave it my best shot, I really did. I just don't have the "God gene", if there is such a thing. I can delude myself just like anybody else, but when it comes down to it, I feel nothing definitive and my intellect says "nope, sorry."

I haven't really flip-flopped... but I sort of go through phases in how much I regard God in my life. Or my need for a spiritual side... I guess.

History wise, really young my family was a Jehovah's witness... :shudder:

Went to Christian Church to Christian Church growing up... family never settled on one... and more often than not I didn't go to church.

After my family divorced my Mom kept on trying to find a Church to go to, she didn't find one that fit her specific criteria of what a church "should" be. This was up until I was 12 or so...

I never really considered God in my life growing up... it wasn't really something I thought about when I was really young. Around 14 or so, I started to watch those creationist programs on TV. Much of what they said seemed pretty stupid... but the basic idea that this world is massively complex... and many things seemed designed... stuck. I don't really have my beliefs solidified in regards to how this world got to be here... I am still holding out for much more evidence about Earth's history.

As difficult as it is for Atheists to believe that God exists... I have a hard time coming to grips that this world could exist without some outside influence. I sometimes play in my head some pet theories about the world, but nothing comes out of it... and I still come back to seeing wonder in everything out there. Particularly mathematics.... it seems such an interesting system... that's just sitting there for us to play with. I mean, call me a fool if you want... but Euler's Identity is just too beautiful for me to accept that there isn't something more to this world.

Finding Christianity... was just a matter of reconciling my own humility and sinful nature with what appears to be the most plausible account of man's failings. It wasn't anything difficult to accept. All the complete details of doctrine... and what it entails to be a Christian... kind of elude me... I'm not a part of a Church. And I am inherently fearful of any large body of people... corruption seems to eat away at them. It's always seemed curious to me that Christ said to be watchful of those who come in his name... which rings very true to me.

I am fearful of anything people describe as spiritual... it's all a form of manipulation to me. Every one says it's true... and I have no evidence that tells me they are telling the truth. So I don't believe any of them... and am skeptical of all who come to me talking about miracles and the power of prayer... I have no evidence that tells me any of it works. And largely they are just trying to steal money from people. I don't think anything spiritual happens nowadays... and viewing the world... for whatever reason... God doesn't interact directly with it. I am going to remain with this view, until I see something I can really describe as miraculous... like a shattered glass suddenly becoming whole. None of this out of sight, just because we don't understand it garbage...

Just as my family flip-flopped between churches... I did the same. My grandparents are Catholic, so I went to their services. I went to some Charismatic youth services... didn't particular care for them. Went to some Baptist churches with my drum teacher and his family. I most recently went to a Christian Reformed Church with friends... stopped going there too.

So I'm a Christian in basic beliefs, without any strong ties to a Church... and fearful of most Churches and manipulation. I kind of flipflop between what Church I should be a part of... but it's not that big of a deal to me. Church is such a large social game...that I get lost there just like anyplace else...

As long as the wonder and beauty I see in this world's systems exist... it'll be hard for me to accept that this world exists without some kind of outside influence. Not being the strongest Christian... I sometimes waver in just how much I believe in Christ... it's kind of a foreign entity... everything I know is from something that people tell me or written down... nothing physically real to me. But it really doesn't matter so much... I just keep a humble heart about my sinful nature and ask whatever created this universe for forgiveness. It's really all I can do...