Public speech by Cornell History Professor soon after 7 Oct
ASPartOfMe wrote:
What I perceive from this and other polling is while the almost universal unquestioned support for Israel we grew with is gone for good, despite the perception you get from the protests in streets and this forum that there is a groundswell of seething anger towards Israel Americans are still more sympathetic to Israel then the Palestinians at the moment.
What matters, in U.S. politics, is not just popular opinion, but also which factions are best organized. And, within the past few decades, Christian Zionism has become much more organized than it was in the past.
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Mona Pereth wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Now consider which countries have always been the most staunchly anti-Zionist. These come to mind: Russia, Iran, Cuba, North Korea, Syria, Venezuela. These, and others, seem to belong to an informal coalition of countries that have also been most steadfastly opposed to the aims of the US and its allies. It also happens that these are countries that have unapologetically authoritarian régimes,
Most likely on the basis that "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." All these countries hate the U.S.A. for one reason or another, hence hate any and all longtime allies of the U.S.A., hence sympathize with anyone being picked on by either the U.S.A. itself or an ally thereof.
MaxE wrote:
so it leads to the ironic conclusion that to be truly committed to the plight of Palestine, it helps to be authoritarian.
I don't think that's the key commonality, at all. The U.S.A. has had some pretty darned authoritarian allies, too.
I hate to seem like an apologist for US foreign policy, but most of that happened during the Cold War. There are still some embarrassing cases. Consider Saudi Arabia, for example (although I wouldn't consider the US Saudi Arabia to be staunch allies) but if you want to take a roll call of countries that vocally oppose the West and maintain an autocratic form of government at home, it's basically those places.
BTW for the most part, I am ignoring Asia except maybe North Korea as being in the game. Those places don't really care about Israel/Palestine, except for maybe if they can somehow take advantage of the situation for their own benefit. They do care about containing China, but that has nothing to do with what's happening in Gaza.
MaxE wrote:
then you say China is building alliances with "likeminded countries". I don't know what likeminded means in this case. [/quote]It means countries that wants to join China's efforts to challenge the dominance of US, Europe and the other western democracies.
MaxE wrote:
Now I don't know what you mean by democratic. Ironically, of all countries in the region, Israel comes closest to fulfilling the Western definition of "democratic [/quote]By democratic I mean a country that can be held to the same standard as a countries like Germany, Norway or Switzerland, not a country that pride it self to do better than Syria.
You write that you are curious as to where I live, as knowing that helps you to understand what sort of things I may have learned about Israel while growing up. Please develop what you mean by that. What are your thoughts on this when I tell you I was born, raised and live in western Europe?
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English is not my first language.
BillyTree wrote:
MaxE wrote:
then you say China is building alliances with "likeminded countries". I don't know what likeminded means in this case.
It means countries that wants to join China's efforts to challenge the dominance of US, Europe and the other western democracies.
Understood. Thanks!
BillyTree wrote:
MaxE wrote:
Now I don't know what you mean by democratic. Ironically, of all countries in the region, Israel comes closest to fulfilling the Western definition of "democratic
By democratic I mean a country that can be held to the same standard as a countries like Germany, Norway or Switzerland, not a country that pride it self to do better than Syria.
You write that you are curious as to where I live, as knowing that helps you to understand what sort of things I may have learned about Israel while growing up. Please develop what you mean by that. What are your thoughts on this when I tell you I was born, raised and live in western Europe?
That tells me two things. You share an understanding of "democracy" with other Westerners, and you were exposed to a somewhat less positive view of the State of Israel than are North Americans your age.
