Zionism and Judaism - The quiet part out loud

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UCLA - An activist confronts a rabbi and tells him there are good Jews and pedophile Zionists who are not real Jews like himself.

Teaneck, NJ - Demonstrators gather in front of a synagogue hosting a fundraiser for an Israeli organization that engages in search and rescue and “dignified handling of body parts”. The protesters are outnumbered by counterprotesters.

Pico-Robertson neighborhood, Los Angeles - In a mostly Jewish neighborhood demonstrators gather in front of a synagogue to protest the synagogue holding an event featuring real estate agents selling property in Israel. It devolves into a riot that spills into neighborhood streets with pro and anti zionists brawling with each other.

New York - Demonstrators light flares in front of a museum set up to memorialize the Nova festival massacre. Several people who were at the festival were at the museum. A speaker mentions they were protesting people holding a rave next to a concentration camp. Later the demonstrators take over a subway car where a speaker leads his fellow demonstrators in a chant of “Raise your hand if you are a Zionist, now is your chance to get out”. The speaker has subsequently been arrested for coercion.

Those incidents have been widely condemned as antisemitic including many people that separate anti zionism and antisemitism.

The issue that is the Jewish religion and institutions and Zionism are highly welded together. In most synagogues the ark faces Jerusalem. A lot of prayers reference Zion, Israel, Jerusalem and a number of holidays are based on the assumption of a Jewish state. Many synagogues sponsor youth groups that take trips to Israel.

The reality is that in an era when the definition of Zionism is morphing from a descriptor to a form of genocide the majority if not the vast majority of Jewish people and institutions will and are being considered legitimate targets(whether Zionism is a form of genocide and if that should make most people and things Jewish legitimate targets are topics discussed elsewhere)

For Jewish Zionists that claim Judaism and Zionism are the same thing note that gentiles will take your word for it.

For anti zionist Jews understand that separating Judaism from Zionism will involve convincing a majority of your fellow Jews to have a radical change in understanding of their religion and identity. While the situation in Gaza is understandably your priority now eventually you are going to have to go through all the prayers to find and eliminate references to Israel and redesign synagogues(that costs money) or ditch them altogether as many Jews are doing anyway.

I understand why this extremely delicate topic has not been brought up. It is a minefield that people especially outsiders are afraid to discuss. This is a discussion about a religion and an ideology so it is within Wrong Planet rules. Sometimes outsiders see things that us insiders are too close to see so reply away.

Zionism is nationalism. Mixing nationalism and religion is like mixing sh-- and ice cream.
When you decide that nationalism is an integral part of that religion, then you are suggesting sh-- is an integral part of that religion.
Nationalism is evil. When you act like nationalism is integral to your religion, you are actively convincing people that your religion is evil. You are saying explicitly to everyone who is not part of your religion that they are beneath you. That is all nationalism is. Nothing more, nothing less.

I applaud people willing to protest against Zionism at synagogues the same way I applaud people willing to protest against Zionists anywhere else! Churches, universities, private businesses, government buildings--anywhere! If I host a pro-genocide party or fundraiser at my church, then I do not get to play victim when people then protest outside that church. You brought genocidal politics into the church--do not act like people must just hate the church for some other reason.
Every Zionist who claims to speak for all Jews everywhere is endangering Jews to further their own political goals--whether that is their intent or not. Any Jew who buys into this narrative is complicit in the endangering of the world's Jews. Nationalism does not become okay just Jews do it. Nationalism is an excellent way to make everyone else hate the nation that nationalism commits atrocities on behalf of.

Inb4 I'm accused of being an anti-semite: I'm gonna go back to routinely contemplating converting to the wonderful religion of my ancestors and reading through the Tanakh for pleasure because it is filled with timeless wisdom and beauty.

There are other options.

There are anti-Zionist ultra-Orthodox Jews whose issue with Israel is that it was founded wrong (both in the wrong way and by the wrong people), and who believe that the current state of Israel is delaying the arrival of the Messiah who will eventually bring about the true, holy Israel.

The latter could hypothetically be founded, by the prophesied Messiah, in a way that does NOT involve displacing millions of Palestinians. After all, genetics has shown that most Palestinians are descended from the ancient Israelites just as much as most Jews are. So, if someone widely recognized by Jews as the "Messiah" were to come along, that person could conceivably be someone who (among other accomplishments) manages to convince both Jews and Palestinians to recognize each other as equal inheritors of God's promises to ancient Israel.

My point is that it's possible for Jews to be against the current state of Israel, with its foundation on colonization and displacement, while nonetheless still looking forward to a better world that would include a different future, holier state of Israel.

So, no, an anti-Zionist (in the sense of being against the current state of Israel, at least) observant Jew does not need go give up saying prayers facing Jerusalem.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 16 Jul 2024, 4:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

One of my room mates in colleges was Jewish and very much opposed to just about everything that the Israeli government was doing That was a bit over 20 years ago and even before Israeli settlers murdered one of the women that had been attending our college.

I define Zionism as the belief that Jews have a right to a state.

I had in mind when writing that line the most prominent anti zionism groups of today. Those groups are influenced by a certain world view we have discussed before that generally views anything tainted by any degree of racism to be confronted and hopefully cancelled. While Jerusalem has a mixed history any association no matter how small with genocide would be something to be avoided never mine prayed to.