Russell Brand CHARGED in the UK

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Ok. That's enough. I leave this discussion.

Which is a common strategy rich creeps use to reframe themselves as the real victims of their non-consensual sex acts. It's affluenza for rapists.

^^^ Actually I've lost count of the number of gurus and cult leaders and people who were famous and not rich who have done the same.

When it seems you have access to young people and they dote on your every word, then it seems the power of prayer is not enough to prevent leading one to temptation (to quote Matthew 6:13).

Some irony in that I think Russell Brand has reformed and is very spiritual and monogamous these days. Quite a contrast to Australian entertainer Rolf Harris who said nasty things about his victims to his grave.

Sexual abuse is a big problem in religious communities, but still, many aren’t even tempted. I think the problem is more about abusers seeking out positions where they can exert power and control over people than an unwitting side effect. There’s typically some degree of calculation involved.I highly doubt he’s reformed in any real sense of the word although he may appear so, especially from a distant vantage point. It’s quite likely that he’s hiding behind a spiritual façade. That’s a common tactic of abusers. People are often shocked upon learning someone they know is a wolf in sheep’s clothing. All that’s to say that appearances don’t mean much. I think crucial first steps toward reform would be admitting culpability and facing the consequences. Otherwise, he’s still harming his victims.

100% agree...

Based on the people he talks to on his podcasts he's had some road to Damascus experience. He does many times openly talk about his past and how he regrets his younger self. I can relate to what he's saying as I am not proud of how I handled my experiences as a younger man (keeping in mind I never had sex till I was married so I am referring to everything else).

People are capable of redemption and experience regret over their past actions. I also want to give him some benefit of doubt from that perspective but I also am not naïve enough to think he might be using his new persona to cover up past indiscreet crimes.

I don’t give a damn what he says on his stupid podcast. It means jack s**t in this situation. We’re talking about major crimes that very often result in devastating, lifelong consequences for victims. This is not about mere mistakes.

With that being said, I didn’t say that people aren’t capable of change although it’s rare as far as rapists, especially repeat offenders, are concerned and requires much more than a spiritual awakening. If he’s guilty as he very likely is and not admitting what he did, he’s not reformed and not worth giving the benefit of the doubt in any capacity because he’s still deeply harming his victims. That would say much more about his character than whatever he shares on his podcast would.

Yeah I think he has to face the consequences. I'm reminded of Mark Wahlberg's situation (again a similar issue) as a teenager he was part of a racist skinhead gang. He seriously assaulted a black woman and hospitalised an asian man who had brain damage. Despite the seriousness of his assaults he was 16 so was given a slap on the wrist and served 45 days in prison. Wahlberg rose to fame as both a musician and later an A-list actor. In later years the black woman and the asian man have tried to seek justice for his crime, Wahlberg has refused to acknowledge his crime or reach out and directly apologise to his victims whose lives he destroyed. His claim is that he served his time (45 days was a bit of joke). But conversely he did redeem his life and is no longer the angry young man he was, has a family and a celebrity.

I think people can redeem themselves despite ugly periods in their life. I think Brand might also need a stint in prison (if he is indeed guilty) to at least give some vindication to his victims. Something most victims of celebrities never get.

Redeem is a strange word and not one I would use in this context out of respect for his victims. (Some degree of) change is possible sometimes.

Raping people isn’t merely an ugly period in a person’s life. I don’t think many rapists, especially repeat offenders, or those who engage in CSA are capable of change, but there are research-based programs that do help some people.

Rapists and pedophiles don't get sent away to another land never to be seen again twighlight. they come back to society. Australia has some of the toughest anti-rape laws, maximum prison sentences given are 10 years when a conviction is made. But here's the reality, with parole most are released after serving a few years. Prominent Australian rugby player Jarred Hayne was found guilty of raping a women in a phone booth. Despite been given a long sentence, he was released after 12 months.

I am hoping there is some level of rehabilitation and some level of redemption for the perpetrators, if for no other reason than protecting the public and in particular their victims. I do acknowledge this is not ideal for victims of abuse or domestic violence when their tormentor is released from jail.

I think we may never know what Brand actually did, but his alleged victims can hopefully articulate their case truthfully and make Brand account. the public humiliation Russell Brand is experiencing is a start (again assuming the allegations are true).

I’m well aware of how the legal justice system works on this topic. It’s not like this is an issue I’m unfamiliar/have no experience with. Whether reports are made or not (they typically aren’t), rapists and child abusers often reoffend which is why the numbers in polls/surveys regarding being victimized are so high. Research-based programs DO help some people. Complex problems often require complex solutions. Since Brand abused multiple women and it didn’t solely involve some exceptional misunderstanding with one woman, it seems his problems are complex, and I think there’s a good chance they didn’t stop with his known victims whether more information comes out or not.

I don’t believe redemption is possible, and as a survivor serving a life sentence of my own, I find using that word in this context quite distasteful. However, at least some degree of change is possible sometimes. I’m not denying that.

What I was trying to say is I hope they have redeemed themselves in terms of atonement e.g. making amends for the physical injury they caused either through jail or some other type of punishment. Of course if a person becomes compulsively accustomed to mistreating women (or children) then rehabilitation is unlikely to either make them feel the consequences of their action nor the impetus to change.

^In that case the atonement is not really to the victim though is it? You can't take back what you did. So you're atoning with society for contravening it's rules. I can see how that would would feel inadequate to those who have suffered abuse.

The concept of imprisonment for punishment and as a future deterrent has never made much sense to me because of that. I can see the point as part of rehabilitation - i.e. returning a person to society who is no longer a threat to other people - but no actual rehabilitation appears to occur in prisons, so far as I'm aware, not in the UK or US anyway. Scandinavia, as is often the case, appears to be ahead of the curve on this.

As for redemption, TP is on the money. If you're not admitting culpability and working to change then you're not on the right path.

The particular problem with celebrities is of course the power and adulation that enables some of them to act this way and whether or not they should be allowed to continue to enjoy those things after they've proved themselves undeserving of it.

At the moment there's a sort of free market approach, where it's assumed that a proven criminal will naturally be rejected.

Unfortunately, we live in times where that cannot be relied upon and victims have to see their abusers continue to enjoy public success and popularity.

If Russell Brand is found guilty he should follow his path to redemption in private, not as part of his ongoing attempts to build a media empire around conspiracy theories. His pursuit of further notoriety seems to me to be just another addiction in his life.

^^^ fair enough