what do you think about limits of psychology and masking?

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I heard an interesting youtube video that mentioned eckhart toll
and some other philosophers noted a
phenomenon whereby "there is always more going on in the moment"
than can be written down.

But a lot of pain can happen when you try to pretend and make a mask
- limiting your identity to a "logically thought of self".
there is a sort of cognitive dissonance
between your "thought about self" - your mask - your logical self,
and what is instinctively there "in the moment" responding to the wealth of
information there.

This was from the context of survivors of emotional abuse
who have constructed a different identity to fit with an emotionally
abusive parent.

But I thought the broader idea also has implications for autists creating masks,
but also psychology in general..
how far can you really get by describing in words a problem, then having someone
tell you what happened?
There is so much information lost!
I feel like a lot of it would just be guesswork and tradition or dogma.

What do you think about the limits of describing the mind with text?

@__Elijahahahaho
Maestro __Elijahahahaho,

Thank you for your thought provoking post.
These are subjects I often ponder and struggle with as well.

my 2 cents, on the limits of text, language:

-> Yes, I fully agree that there are inherent issues with trying to verbalize to peers what is happening internally inside of us NT or ND humans, amongst the 2 groups, but even amongst peers in the same group.
I remember a twin study that was done where one predictive AI was trained on twin A's text inputs he needed to read aloud and his brain scans (taken at the time he was reading the text-inputs). The AI could after a week of training create 90% procent accurate text when only given the brain scans. BUT when replacing the twin A with their brother twin B, the AI could not formulate correctly one word of the text input. all our brains form and function differently at a very fundamental level.

But the need to be able to formulate in words a feeling/idea/summary of interaction often leads to a deep understanding and integrated capacity to deal with similar thoughts, situations, feelings.
This comes back to our prefrontal-cortex needing qualifiers to integrate with feedback from our brains limbic systems.
as such the ability to do so is crucial for personal development.

>As such I'd propose to not mainly focus on trying to 'put into words' thoughts, feelings, idea's you have to others, but the main focus should be on us being able to TO OURSELVES qualify in understood language what we are experiencing. This is partly what NET-, or TF-CBT therapy is about. Once you have a routine of trying to for yourself verbalize experience this can than possible develop into a skill where you might tentatively attempt to span the divide between other human minds and yourself

Kind regards,
Kada

I agree there's more going on in a person than they can put into words, and it's a mistake to think that current understanding of how people tick is all there is to it. All we can hope for is to get some kind of grasp on the most important things. I think we've made some good advances on what the ancients had, but we're not there yet, and maybe we never will be. Still, animals don't usually understand themselves cognitively like we do, but it doesn't seem to bother them. They just get on with it.

Found limits on the way I was expressing in language was not adequate. Found often people did not have the same frames of reference as myself, And that in order to be understood. Often had to explain background of things involving people ,things and places. So that I was on the same page as various people . And still manage to be misunderstood.
Regardless of how well I mask .

It's just something of a no-brainer to me.
That I simply knew there are limits to language itself.

Tho, in my own case, language itself had always been limiting.

That me being different meant I do not have the same processes -- that in my own frustration, the norm is that people cannot describe these processes to me.

To them, they're telling a Point A to Point B, as if everyone shares an in-between, assumes the share steps with some twists.

I only see a Point A and Point B.
Nothing in between -- or at least people refuses or unable to tell it other than "it's natural" or "it's just common sense" or "it's just the right thing to do".

Like they have a blackbox they trusts so much in guiding them, but without ever knowing it's existence, without ever questioning it ever exists let alone how it worked.

It literally took my SPED teacher -- psychologist whose strengths are in language and is one of those actual empaths -- to just hear that glimpse of a personal in-between from just anyone.


I had already expressed the self that's in this physical reality needing a solution -- and the me who I want to, as I would've intended but couldn't.

I see that the former is this sick version of me who gets in the way of the latter's existence and I've been complaining of the lack of bridge to make it possible.

What they heard is that I'm splitting myself into two different people and denying. Me escaping my wrongs or responsibility, not owning crap and so on.

That's because that's their common assumption, because "everyone suffers".
They don't heard me wanting help, they heard me being entitled from the lack of human suffering.


And if I told them instead that I'm not this body and this mind and definately not these feelings, along with this face and name, the results would be blatantly obvious, wouldn't?


But then again -- there are people whose description of a successful session from an intense meditative state as "nothing" -- but that's because it literally is in ways most people cannot comprehend and I've been there myself.

Most people don't.
I thus I described that there's no time, there's no space, there's no proprioception, there's no vestibular, there's no thought, "like a really really huge break from existence", etc.
Most people never been there, ever.

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