Israeli nationalists chant ‘death to Arabs’ in Jerusalem

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I believe the following is adjacent to the discussion of what should be done.

Repost of a prediction I made in another thread:
An Israel loss in this particular war will be Hamas still in power and eventually lobbying rockets into Israel and conducting occasional terrorist attacks, the Israelis retaliating and here we go again. The larger conflict will be resolved when the either the Palestinian or Jewish national project is given up upon or destroyed by force. As mentioned Palestinians again and again have proven against overwhelming odds it is not going to be them. The Jewish one is in question and the expectation that the Jews will give up and go back to Poland or whatever is central to resistance strategy.

Worst case for Israel. We are in a post Netenyahu, post Trump world. The anti zionist zoomers are in power in America and sanctioning Israel. Traditionally Israel eventually gives in to the Americans. Netenyahu is a very Westernized person. The future PM may not be and declare that letting that Americans dictate our policy goes against the core values of zionism. It becomes obvious that one way or another the zionists have to be forced out. Sanctions are increased, and maybe eventually a blockade. Whether the west can unite enough to go this far is questionable but lets assume Israel has so pissed off the rest of the world that they go through with it. I can see westernized Israelis giving up but die hard zionists no.

Eventually the zionists will not be able to hold off the rest of the world. At best the end and the aftermath will be a clusterf**k at worst the Israeli Jews will get the Holocaust 2.0 they always feared.

Obviously the above prediction is pessimistic if not apocalyptic. It is a prediction many will disagree with. They can point to Northern Ireland and other seemingly intractable situations where things are peaceful if not friendly these days. Anything is possible so maybe the less pessimistic are right, progress is inevitable etc.

In making a prediction I can’t base it totally on hope. We are constantly told and tell ourselves that all people are the same. That is at best partially true. We in the west have trouble believing that some people really do believe that death is preferable in most situations. They think that while it might take time in one way or another people will see the light. I don’t believe this is true for all situations. I also believe there is not a solution for every problem.

I agree the government should have (after ethe initial attempt to rescue hostages) stopped and tried to negotiate instead the IDF has run amok and subsequently committed mass murder. Part of the problem is Mossad has pulled of miraculous rescue missions in the past, most notably this one.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entebbe_raid

I think the IDF and Mossad were massively humiliated after Oct 7 and public pressure in Israel means expectations that Israel don't leave people behind has compelled the IDF to engage in a scorched earth methods that are fuelled (no doubt) by retribution.

I imagine members of the Israeli government and IDF (like countries such as Rwanda and Bosnia) will eventually be charged with war crimes, land occupied by Zionist settlers forced to be returned. However that's the extent of consequences Israel as a whole will face. Unless there is something you know that I haven't considered?

How will this look like?

It could be anarchy, Israeli Civil war. It could ironically be the Israeli Jews ironically starved by sanctions being ripe for slaughter by genocidal elements of the Free Palestinian movement. I purposely avoided talking about an international invasion and conquering of Israel because I wonder if the Sampson option would give those wanting to do that pause. The Sampson option would be suicide if used on the Palestinians because the Jews would be irradiated also. I see it in the form of Israel using its cyber capabilities to “turn out the lights” in western countries.

Basically the purpose of the prediction was I believe the discussion in this thread about who and was and is most at fault deflects from the real problem. At this point both sides generally speaking favor ethnic cleansing to genocide because for many valid reasons they expect to slaughtered by the other side should they lose.

The “prediction” is based on the assumption that America and the west will come to the binary view that Israel is the Nazis of the current era and as expressed in this thread and should be dealt with the way the Nazis were. We talk about pendulum swings in American politics but it is really an action followed by a more extreme reaction followed by an even more extreme reaction etc. I think eventually the radical left wins this because the young will know to use technology better.

We assume right wing American governments will always be uber zionists. But this may not be true because there is a substantial isolationist to antisemitic element remerging in the American right. Think J.D. Vance and Tucker Carlson. If America continues to degrade those points of view will seem to make sense. We already have seen these elements do well in some European elections.

The Jews have survived seemingly intractable situations. This has led zionists to believe that through smarts, determination, and heavenly intervention they will always find a way. History teaches otherwise, nothing lasts forever. The only way zionists will be an exception is if the Jews are the chosen people. I don’t and never have believed that.

I wonder how many more Americans need to die due to a lack of health care before we cut the Israelis off. But if the US really does withdraw all civilians and non-essential personnel from the middle east, we may well see an attack by either Israel or the US on Iran in an effort to distract from the genocide going on in Gaza.

While that fits into the America First idea a lot of these same people believe vaccines are a hoax.

Agreed. The West sees supporting Israel as a way to atone for their own moral failures towards the Jews, and best of all for the west, someone else's blood pays the bill.

Israelis are far more resilient > Americans. If sanctions do start to hit, they will happily live Kibbutz style and continue volunteering for the IDF. Israel will always be around. talk of Israel imploding or enduring a 2nd holocaust at the hands of the Arabs has been predicted since 1948. If anything they are stronger now.

A lot of them are Yanks who will go back home to America, rather than deal with the consequences of Israel's actions.

They can't produce any of their weapons without importing materials and they don't have the ability to build their own telecommunications gear either. What's more, they have massively over settled the area versus what it was like in the '50s and most of the countries in the region have reasons to want to wipe them off the map. Even Iran that was in their side when Saddam Hussein was in charge of it's is likely to want them destroyed

Or, in other words what was viable 60 years ago may well not be viable now.

^^^ Population issue is interesting. Israel's birth rate is the highest in the west, when you include immigration from the old Soviet Union then it partially explains land grabs + increase in high rises (if you can't expand without being called "war criminals" then the Israelis will be forced to build up).

trump already filled his quota with white south Africans.

They're dual citizens, Trump can't refuse them entry.

Being called war criminals isn't the issue, it's the being war criminals that is. And, they aren't even trying to get the sort of treaties in place that would get them the land. Not that it really matters, the right to return more or less guarantees that there won't ever be enough space in that part of the world. It's not like the US, China or Russia where there's a ton of space that isn't being used, but could conceivably be used with advances in technology.

Israel is just in a really bad spot in every sense of the world and was mostly put there because people wanted this result. The place to put it should have been in some of the land that Germany and/or Italy had controlled prior to WWII as part of the punishment for engaging in genocide. Japan couldn't do it mostly because they don't have as much land to begin with. Although that would have been preferable as it would have stopped this nonsense with respect to the whole greater Israel project of stealing a bunch of occupied land and ethnically cleansing it of gentiles.

https://forward.com/fast-forward/710986 ... g-younger/

I do believe Israelis are a lot more resilient than Americans. What I question is whether the Israelis are resilient enough to withstand even a small amount of the deprivation the Palestinians have withstood, living in a true pariah state, cut off from the rest of the world. The Israel of 2025 does not resemble the Israel of its first few decades. Israel consisted mostly of people who fled the Holocaust and other systematic persecutions. That's not true now. Most of them today do not live on kibbutzes. Israel is or was, prior to 10/7, the start-up nation living in comfort. I assume the more westernized would flee, and the more religious would stay until they are eliminated. But one never knows how people are going to react to crises situations until it happens.