Losing Hope

Post Reply New Topic

Hugs

Could you be trying to talk yourself out of the therapy?
Baggage is a term that I honestly find derogatory, it dismisses reality and nuance, its a way of othering, I didnt mean so much that the struggles were analagous, though the impact on mental health is, more so referring to them as baggage.
Ok, take a person with dyslexia, their struggles with the written word, personally I couldnt tolerate someone referring to that experience as baggage, it would be dismissive and cruel, what do you think? Same for tic disorders, motor disorders, speech and language disorders, ADHD etc.

My point is that this view is just as dismissive and cruel:

Yes Im sure there are shreds of truth in there, its the perspective on it though thats harmful. Facing 'reality' (this version) in this way seems to me like self harm, could it be fed by the depression and conditioning?

I don't think so, since I still fully intend on giving it a shot. I just waver on how helpful I think it'll end up being.

Amity wrote:

Baggage is a term that I honestly find derogatory, it dismisses reality and nuance, its a way of othering, I didnt mean so much that the struggles were analagous, though the impact on mental health is, more so referring to them as baggage.
Ok, take a person with dyslexia, their struggles with the written word, personally I couldnt tolerate someone referring to that experience as baggage, it would be dismissive and cruel, what do you think? Same for tic disorders, motor disorders, speech and language disorders, ADHD etc.

So what you seem to be suggesting is that my struggles with love and dating have more to do with being on the spectrum than any personal failings or poor choices of my own. I'd probably agree with that. What I'm describing as baggage is the emotional toll I've taken from my perpetual lack of success forming a romantic relationship, which I guess in your example would be the equivalent of mounting frustration experienced by a dyslexic person over their perpetual struggles with written words. I think you're right in what you're saying, but I also think there seems to be a clearer line to draw between depression or frustration over mobility issues for a physically disabled person, and depression or frustration over struggles with written words for a dyslexic person than there is for depression or frustration over struggles with love and dating for an autistic person. Just because it seems that way doesn't mean it is that way though. We can use the term "emotional toll" instead of "baggage".

Amity wrote:

My point is that this view is just as dismissive and cruel:

Quote:

I'm just a bitter, self-centred bearded sod with a lazy eye and the beginnings of a receding hairline, who is interested in very little, has minimal investment in society, and continues to long for that which is quite obviously out of reach.

Yes Im sure there are shreds of truth in there, its the perspective on it though thats harmful. Facing 'reality' (this version) in this way seems to me like self harm, could it be fed by the depression and conditioning?

I wasn't in a great mood when I made that post, and I was basically doing the opposite of what people in marketing do, in that I was omitting any nuance or favourable information to paint the truth in as negative a way as possible. I'm pretty sure some of my subconscious reasoning for doing that was to try to get others to come in and challenge that framing of the situation, and offer a more optimistic perspective and/or offer compliments to make me feel better.

Ah I see, I stand by what Ive said before about you, and hope that when Im well/able to, my actions confirm that.
Words will only keep you going for a while though, like a temporary band aid for a wound that needs medical attention.
Thats the therapy bit, to challenge the core beliefs that are unhelpful, to develop self regulation in helpful ways and help you with long term strategies to frame your perspective in a self caring way. (These btw are all essential for any relationship with another living being and to focus momentarily on the romantic relationship, qualities that are necessary and are an indicator for how you would genuinely relate to a partner in distress, in a healthy way.)

I dont focus on the relationship side of things as I see it as a type of outcome-type thinking, but there are problems to solve and focus on first, getting there will take time.

I read somewhere that it takes about 8 sessions to know if the therapist can/cant help you, Ive been to quite a few and sometimes Ive known instantly and not returned. If Im uncertain at the start Ive mostly known for definite after 6 sessions if its worth continuing or moving elsewhere. It takes a team effort and I think developing that on a meaningful level can take longer for people with an ASD.

Im not sure if it will help but Ill share an analogy from my own life. In my late 20s I was working towards financial stability so that my ex and I could start a family... Finding my relationship over in my early 30s, realising I had been used and financially conned, being destitute and my mental health in tatters, autistic burn out pre diagnosis... you get the picture. I had to accept that realistically by the time I healed, fully and was able to consider relationships again I would be past an age where I could have children safely (personal age preference), as the job security I had was gone I would be lucky to get short term contracts instead and past an age where I could get a mortgage to have security for said child. I had worked so hard to be in a position to have children, that outcome was something that kept me going through my late 20s.

Accepting that tore me up. Funny though, that getting to a place where I grieved for that outcome, opened up other ways of life that I hadnt ever imagined, ways that Im very happy with now, I dare say relieved that the outcome I worked so hard for didnt happen. For me it was only possible though through first addressing my core beliefs.

Sorry for taking a while to respond. Things have been a bit busy lately.

I appreciate that.

Amity wrote:

Words will only keep you going for a while though, like a temporary band aid for a wound that needs medical attention.
Thats the therapy bit, to challenge the core beliefs that are unhelpful, to develop self regulation in helpful ways and help you with long term strategies to frame your perspective in a self caring way. (These btw are all essential for any relationship with another living being and to focus momentarily on the romantic relationship, qualities that are necessary and are an indicator for how you would genuinely relate to a partner in distress, in a healthy way.)

Yeah, I've noticed some reflexive negativity in my thought processes related to areas where I've suffered brutal or relentless failure, and reflecting on a couple of experiences of the past with women, I wonder if there might have been some potential to get a date or whatever if I'd "made a move", which I didn't bother doing because of the ingrained belief based on my lived experience that I'm not good enough for women to be interested in romantically.

I think the main things I'll be looking to get from therapy this time around are being able to work through past scars, and being able to challenge the preconceptions they've entrapped me with, and developing a greater level of comfort in and greater ability to navigate social situations, especially with unfamiliar people.

Amity wrote:

I dont focus on the relationship side of things as I see it as a type of outcome-type thinking, but there are problems to solve and focus on first, getting there will take time.

I read somewhere that it takes about 8 sessions to know if the therapist can/cant help you, Ive been to quite a few and sometimes Ive known instantly and not returned. If Im uncertain at the start Ive mostly known for definite after 6 sessions if its worth continuing or moving elsewhere. It takes a team effort and I think developing that on a meaningful level can take longer for people with an ASD.

I'd imagine it's going to be easier to tell if a therapist can help you or not, if you have a reasonable idea of what you want help with. When I've been in therapy previously, I had a lesser understanding of the role of a therapist, and my main goal was basically to get a girlfriend, which of course isn't something that the therapist can have much influence over. While I would of course still very much like to get a girlfriend, I realise that therapy only has the capacity to contribute to that goal in an indirect way, by addressing mental obstacles that might hinder my ability to find a relationship.

Amity wrote:

Im not sure if it will help but Ill share an analogy from my own life. In my late 20s I was working towards financial stability so that my ex and I could start a family... Finding my relationship over in my early 30s, realising I had been used and financially conned, being destitute and my mental health in tatters, autistic burn out pre diagnosis... you get the picture. I had to accept that realistically by the time I healed, fully and was able to consider relationships again I would be past an age where I could have children safely (personal age preference), as the job security I had was gone I would be lucky to get short term contracts instead and past an age where I could get a mortgage to have security for said child. I had worked so hard to be in a position to have children, that outcome was something that kept me going through my late 20s.

I can only imagine how awful it would have been to go through the experience you've shared here, with so much going to crap at once after the end of your relationship, and on top of all of the mental and financial anguish that was inflicted on you, having to come to terms with the fact that the life you'd worked so hard for was a life that you'll never be able to have. I'm sorry you went through that.

Amity wrote:

Accepting that tore me up. Funny though, that getting to a place where I grieved for that outcome, opened up other ways of life that I hadnt ever imagined, ways that Im very happy with now, I dare say relieved that the outcome I worked so hard for didnt happen. For me it was only possible though through first addressing my core beliefs.

I'm glad that there was at least a happy ending to your story

I guess I'm going to bring this thread back from the dead and use it to talk about where I'm at right now.

Just over two weeks ago, I moved out from my mum's place for the first time, and moved into my own unit. For the most part, I've enjoyed having my own place and space, but between living alone now, arranging a house-warming party and planning to have people over for my birthday on Friday, it's really hit home how few friends I actually have, and I guess how lonely I am, especially with the whole never-had-a-girlfriend thing. On top of that, the few friends I do have all have friends that they're closer with than me, and I'm pretty sure all of them would consider themselves closer with my brother than with me, which makes sense to me, but at the same time kinda sucks.

I've only managed to have two therapy sessions up until now because they've been booked ahead and I have limited availability due to work. I recently learned you can book in multiple sessions though, so I've booked a few ahead so that shouldn't be as much of a problem anymore.

As for the girlfriend stuff, I've already said everything I feel about that on this thread, including my plan not to make it to a certain age if I've never had a girlfriend by then. All that still holds just as true, and the girlfriend stuff is still bothering me just as much as it has for the past 10 years, so yeah that's fun. I still don't have a clue what to do to increase my exposure to women in my age range and/or get a girlfriend so it's difficult to shake this feeling of hopelessness about my love life. I still can't help but feel that even if I did manage to get someone interested in me, that they'd soon be turned off by me anyway when given more information.

Though I'd like to be, I'm just not convinced that my story has a happy ending.

Hey, progress! Congrats for the new place!

I usually have the same problem with friends; I have them, but if I stop to think about it, I easily notice that we're by no means close... "growing apart" is something that's happened to me and lots of my friends from childhood, but I suppose that usually people, unlike me, get new friends with pretty much the same pace as they grow apart from the old.

Thanks!



I think it's harder for everyone to make friends after they've finished with secondary and tertiary education, especially if you can't really make any at your job. Furthermore, I think the ease with which you can accumulate friends after secondary and tertiary education is dependent on how many friends you already have. People with a lot of friends always have the option of meeting new people through their friends, where that option isn't as viable for people with few or no friends.

In my case, there are a dwindling number of activities that both my friends and I are interested in doing together. A lot of the reason that I don't see my friends much is because I just don't know what to do with them other than just talking.

I think that by the time people finish school, they usually have this pretty solid set of friendships that last, even if they sometimes fall out of contact a little due to moving elsewhere or something. As in, while new ones aren't formed as rapidly, old ones don't fall out at the same space, either. Of course, it could just be the case with the NTs I've observed and that in reality it's different for everyone.

Of course, meeting more friends through old ones is easier, but I think that a social personality and the ability to socialize are more relevant. Even if you had one friend who introduced you to new person every week, you wouldn't become friends with them unless you had the social skills to do so. If you don't, then they're all just one more person that you've met instead of being your friends.

I only had one friend from high school with whom I kept in touch for a while.

I often adopted the interests of my friends in order to have an excuse to hang out with them.

In high school I started playing board games because the girl I wanted to be friends with played board games.

In college I started playing video games because all of my friends played video games.

Now I go for walks on certain trails and follow certain shows so that I have an excuse to see my current friends.

This is just what had worked for me. Hopefully you might get some ideas.

It is very hard to meet people once out of school/education, I agree.

Congrats on your new home! I also hate living alone and my parents had to practically throw me out, so I can very much sympathize.

I just don't see how my love life is going to get any better, and I honestly don't think it's going to.

Did you already hit your selfset age limit or did something in particular happen?

No, I just dont see a viable way to improve my situation and I'm really just getting fed up with the situation itself as well as the fact that it's such a constant part of my life. I get mad thinking about the past and what I've missed out on, and the fact that this is my story now. I get mad about the damage this situation has influenced me to do to myself, and the damage that has been inflicted on my self-esteem. I get mad that even if I am to have any chance of getting a relationship now, it's probably going to take some time, since apparently the last 12 years hasn't been enough time. I get frustrated trying to figure out what to do and drawing blanks all the time.

I'm just really sick of it all, and I honestly don't feel like things are going to improve.

I’ve never had enough friends to have a “housewarming party.”

You’ve done better than me in that department!

It was literally just my mum, my brother, my grandmother and one friend.