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Tamaya
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03 Jan 2026, 12:03 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
Tamaya wrote:
I once read a beautiful story about an autistic child with such remarkable empathy that he couldn't show or articulate but really went above and beyond to help his dying brother. Yes, it's fictional, but even so, it still feels plausible, that an autistic person can and do have empathy.

Reading this story always makes me tear up.


Again, you are confusing Empathy with the desire to help others. I like helping other people; it’s the main reason I visit this site!

No tears here.


It wasn't about helping, it was the way he understood what snow meant to his brother and wanted him to see snow no matter what. He knew it would make his brother happy, which is a way of putting himself into his brother's shoes.


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kuen
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03 Jan 2026, 12:33 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
As stated, it IS a defining trait, a part of the standard diagnoses, so if you have high empathy, its very unlikely that you are Autistic.

If you have a citation handy, would you mind providing it? (Please don't go chasing it up if it is not handy! I am only curious.)

What the DSM-5 seems to say is:

Quote:
Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect ... Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers

None of that is incompatible with empathy.

This was discussed briefly during my diagnosis interviews (a long time ago) because I was good at things like art and literature, which require empathy. At that time it was seen as an interesting variable.



Last edited by kuen on 03 Jan 2026, 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

kuen
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03 Jan 2026, 12:57 pm

Noémie M. Cusson, Alexa J. Meilleur, Boris C. Bernhardt, Isabelle Soulières, Laurent Mottron, A systematic review and meta-analysis of empathy in autism: The influence of measures, Clinical Psychology Review, Volume 120, 2025, 102623, ISSN 0272-7358, https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cpr.2025.102623.

Quote:
Empathy deficits are considered a core attribute of autism and are scored in standardized autism diagnostic instruments. However, empirical evidence concerning empathy in autism is contradictory. This systematic review, which included 226 studies, thus offers a comprehensive overview of empathy in autism. It additionally examined the impact of the chosen empathy measure and the effect of several moderators. ... Critically, there were notable differences in effect sizes obtained across empathy measures and even between subscales of the same measure. For instance, results for the affective empathy subscales of the Interpersonal Reactivity Index reveal lower empathic concern (g = −0.59) but increased personal distress (g = 0.67) in autistic relative to typical participants. A qualitative review of ecological and neuroimaging tasks mostly demonstrated minimal autistic versus non-autistic differences. This meta-analysis thus suggests that measuring empathy as a unidimensional construct may both distort and increase the notion of an empathy deficit in autism.

...

A comprehensive overview of the literature on empathy in autism suggests that, on average, autistic individuals have a different empathy profile than typical individuals, characterized by reduced cognitive empathy and limited difficulties with the affective empathy component. By contrast, studies using unidimensional empathy measures have almost systematically reported autistic individuals to show reduced empathy. Furthermore, the results highly rely on the measure chosen to assess empathy in autism, as there were noticeable differences in the effect sizes obtained depending on the chosen measure. Finally, several methodological and statistical issues in studies investigating empathy in autism were noted. Thus, the taken for granted conclusions on the autistic deficit in empathy must be treated with caution as long as research using measures more aligned with current empathy conceptualizations is not conducted.

I haven't actually digested this :P I'm going to have to go away and think about the methodology a bit because I haven't processed it at all, but the conclusions accord pretty well with my own casual impressions.

Kimmig, AC.S., Burger, L., Schall, M. et al. Impairment of affective and cognitive empathy in high functioning autism is mediated by alterations in emotional reactivity. Sci Rep 14, 21662 (2024). https://doi.org/10.1038/s41598-024-71825-1
Quote:
While some studies suggest a more consistent and larger impairment of cognitive empathy ... findings regarding affective empathy are mixed. According to Bird and Viding ... ASD is not directly associated with impairments of sharing the emotions of others. Instead, deficits in affective empathy are primarily mediated by impairments in the perception of nonverbal emotional cues and reduced attention to socially relevant stimuli, among other factors.

Moreover, the own tendency to experience emotions (i.e., emotional reactivity) could affect the intensity of emotions attributed to and/or felt for others ...

... our study indicates a fundamental dysfunction in empathic processes (mediated by aberrant emotional reactivity), rather than a selective impairment in either cognitive or affective empathy ... it has been argued that autistic individuals may not necessarily experience general empathic deficits but instead demonstrate aberrant empathic behavior depending on the characteristics and social scripts of the target person ...

In addition to deviations in emotional reactivity and social scripts, factors such as alexithymia (i.e., the inability/difficulty to recognize, express or describe one’s own feelings) and depression may moderate cognitive and affective empathic deficits in autistic individuals ... These conditions also influence both physiological and self-reported emotional reactivity ...


Shalev I, Warrier V, Greenberg DM, Smith P, Allison C, Baron-Cohen S, Eran A, Uzefovsky F. Reexamining empathy in autism: Empathic disequilibrium as a novel predictor of autism diagnosis and autistic traits. Autism Res. 2022 Oct;15(10):1917-1928. doi: 10.1002/aur.2794. Epub 2022 Aug 20. PMID: 36053924; PMCID: PMC9804307.
Quote:
... a tendency towards higher emotional than cognitive empathy (empathic disequilibrium towards emotional empathy) predicted both autism diagnosis and the social domain of autistic traits, while higher cognitive than emotional empathy was associated with the non-social domain of autism. Empathic disequilibrium was also more prominent in autistic females. This study provides evidence that beyond empathy as was measured thus far, empathic disequilibrium offers a novel analytical approach for examining the role of empathy. Empathic disequilibrium allows for a more nuanced understanding of the links between empathy and autism.

LAY SUMMARY: Many autistic individuals report feelings of excessive empathy, yet their experience is not reflected by most of the current literature, typically suggesting that autism is characterized by intact emotional and reduced cognitive empathy. To fill this gap, we looked at both ends of the imbalance between these components, termed empathic disequilibrium. We show that, like empathy, empathic disequilibrium is related to autism diagnosis and traits, and thus may provide a more nuanced understanding of empathy and its link with autism.

Also an interesting thing to think about!


I don't know why I'm adding things to my reading lists. They are savagely overgrown as 'tis.



Tamaya
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03 Jan 2026, 1:18 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
Tamaya wrote:
^ It depends on what your definition of empathy is. I don't have low empathy. In fact some autistics can have overwhelming empathy and be very sensitive people. I think the more creative types are more likely to have higher empathy.

You say you have "low empathy" like it's a defining trait, but you probably have more empathy than you think. Or if you do have low empathy like you say you do then it's probably a you thing, and doesn't speak for all autistic people.


As stated, it IS a defining trait, a part of the standard diagnoses, so if you have high empathy, its very unlikely that you are Autistic.

As for linking it with creativity, my score for this in the C&M test was off the top of the sheet. I not only cannot tell how others feel, I’ve zero interest in doing so.

Looks like a trait of yours as an individual. This does not apply to all autistic people. I have always been able to tell how others feel, from picking up on tone of voice and body language. In fact I picked up a lot on other people's emotions. Like when I was 13, my aunt had a guy interested in her, and I picked up on my mother's envy and insecurity about it, even though it wasn't obvious (she hadn't verbalised that she was envious, but I still naturally picked up on hints). So I reacted to her feelings of envy by becoming anxious and it kinda amplified the situation, like getting me believing that my aunt having a boyfriend was the end of the world. I seemed influenced by the hints of my mother's feelings of jealousy and anxiety. But then when I next saw my aunt I automatically smiled at her happiness she felt with her guy, and so I began accepting this. I could still feel my mother's envy though. She became depressed, which affected me deeply.


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10 Jan 2026, 2:06 pm

I experienced something that might be classed as empathy just recently

I've never met my mother and I've only communicated with her via a third party, through digital messaging as she refuses to acknowledge me...that's cool

Anyway last week I got a notification from ancestry.com that there was half first cousin that had popped up. This threw the question of who my dad is into a completely different direction. It means the man who's name is on paper cannot be my dad.

So I tried to get back in contact with my mother but as usual there was nothing. Just her cousin telling me stuff I already know

Anyway something happened, I started to see the situation from my mother's point of view. I realised that even though the information is concerning my life/birth, it's also her secret to keep. She has kept this to herself for over half a century so it is literally (imo) her absolute right to keep the secret of how I came to be

Believe it or not this realisation has set me free. I've been able to draw a line under the whole lot and move on from it

I believe this was empathy because I was able to absolutely put myself in her shoes and see it from her perspective and even though I'll never meet this woman (my mother) I feel a connection to her and I somehow know the story and I know what she has been through and what it must have taken for her to keep this to herself for all of these years

The world was a very different place in 1972 when she would have been carrying me and all I can say is, is that I'm probably lucky to be alive

And I'm actually glad that I am as well


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Tamaya
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10 Jan 2026, 3:07 pm

You probably have more empathy than you think. You seem pretty empathetic here, even when you say you're just being natural.

I feel empathy, like yesterday when my husband phoned and asked if I was okay with getting the bus back, as he is still unwell with his legs and didn't feel like coming all the way to my dad's to pick me up (as it's some 25 miles distance). I didn't really feel like getting the bus, but at the same time I felt a feeling of relief for him that he didn't have to come out and drive all the way here and that he could just stay and relax in the warm instead. I literally felt his relief, and it made me feel good, even as I was waiting in the freezing cold at the bus stop.


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10 Jan 2026, 3:18 pm

I'd say it was probably the most defining moment of my life


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10 Jan 2026, 3:53 pm

That's amazing, babybird. Congratulations!



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10 Jan 2026, 4:04 pm

gwynfryn wrote:
As stated, it IS a defining trait, a part of the standard diagnoses, so if you have high empathy, its very unlikely that you are Autistic.


I think that's an out-dated interpretation of autism. I think the double empathy problem is a more accurate explanation. A mismatch and a lack of mutual understanding between the two groups, meaning that most autistic people struggle to understand and empathize with non-autistic people, whereas most non-autistic people also struggle to understand and empathize with autistic people.


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kuen
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10 Jan 2026, 4:18 pm

I've been thinking about functional lack of affective empathy.

For example, if a child is distressed, a responsible adult response is to identify that distress but not mirror it - because it is the adult's job to model effective self-regulation.



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10 Jan 2026, 11:33 pm

kuen wrote:
I've been thinking about functional lack of affective empathy.

For example, if a child is distressed, a responsible adult response is to identify that distress but not mirror it - because it is the adult's job to model effective self-regulation.

At the same time, the effective self regulation model shouldn't be perceived by a child as something as "my caregiver doesn't care" for having a poker esque face by not reacting "enough" to "care".


There's mirroring, there's centering, and then there's being "attuned".


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kuen
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11 Jan 2026, 7:51 am

Edna3362 wrote:
kuen wrote:
I've been thinking about functional lack of affective empathy.

For example, if a child is distressed, a responsible adult response is to identify that distress but not mirror it - because it is the adult's job to model effective self-regulation.

At the same time, the effective self regulation model shouldn't be perceived by a child as something as "my caregiver doesn't care" for having a poker esque face by not reacting "enough" to "care".

There's mirroring, there's centering, and then there's being "attuned".


Oh true! So it is not a lack of empathy but rather empathy that is well regulated.

This point has been made before, probably by you, Edna3362, but I think a lot of what I grew up thinking of as 'empathy' was really just dysregulated or under-regulated emotionality.

So my personal (not theoretically sound :P) model of functional empathy has first, the true perception of somebody else; second, effective self-regulation, because if the response takes centre stage or becomes unmanageable then it is no longer a supportive response.



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11 Jan 2026, 7:55 am

I think autistic children are less likely to have adults competently identify our emotions and regulate their own responses. In other words, I suspect we are less likely to experience an attuned or empathic response to our emotions, and less likely to inherit working models of empathy. Then as we get a little older I think that many of us are poorly socialised as a result of autistic traits.

At the same time, because we experience and express things differently or because we don't receive that level of attunement or modelled self-regulation, many of us aren't really taught to self-regulate. Unregulated emotionality is painful. So I suspect a fair number of us end up suppressing what we don't know how to regulate. And I am wondering whether this contributes to some of the patchiness we see in how empathy in autistic people is identified and assessed: at either end of a range, with not much representation in the 'desirably functional' middle.

And what we are told, eventually, is we lack empathy, we don't self-regulate. :? Pfft.



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13 Jan 2026, 9:04 am

BillyTree wrote:
gwynfryn wrote:
As stated, it IS a defining trait, a part of the standard diagnoses, so if you have high empathy, its very unlikely that you are Autistic.


I think that's an out-dated interpretation of autism. I think the double empathy problem is a more accurate explanation. A mismatch and a lack of mutual understanding between the two groups, meaning that most autistic people struggle to understand and empathize with non-autistic people, whereas most non-autistic people also struggle to understand and empathize with autistic people.


Nice point


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17 Jan 2026, 7:58 pm

I took Lexapro for a year, then stopped abruptly over 2-3 weeks. On it, I became manic and my autism became worse. I started talking too much and not caring that I offended people. God-like syndrome!

When I stopped it, I became irritable, angry and dangerous to people, being to people on purpose. I almost got arrested twice!! I got myself fired, sued and evicted during the withdrawal period. Five years after stopping, I am still not the same person I was before.

I lost the emotional attunement I had before the medication. Like it damaged part of my brain maybe?

I started to react very badly to coffee too, but can't stop drinking it. Coffee may be my problem more than Lexapro now!

Anyway, trying Lexapro, and not taking it as prescribed or being dilligent with doses and tapering off over months - derailed and almost completely ruined my life!



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24 Jan 2026, 6:33 am

I haven't been able to put animals out of their misery because I've been so crippled by an empathic response to pain. I've had to call someone.

That is horrible. There isn't any effective difference between that and cruelty.