Why would G-D sacrifice his only Son? Why not himself?

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Persephone29
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08 Nov 2019, 12:49 am

We were created in G-d's image. To me, that means emotions too. Ex: God described himself as being a jealous God. He got angry, etc...

If you're a parent, it's easy to die for your child. I would much rather die than see my child die. God knew if a parent thought about losing or sacrificing a child, we would understand why it was a big deal.


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08 Nov 2019, 5:42 pm

From a mythological/literary perspective, it's been posited that the resurrection (just like the "virgin" birth) was an aspect tacked onto the Jesus story long after its inception in order to bring it closer to other already well-established religious traditions that were around at the time, possibly to attract converts.


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08 Nov 2019, 6:10 pm

domineekee wrote:
For me this is true, but I am also open to a communion that doesn't involve much ritual and hopefully something that i would relate to.


Quakers believe in a communion with God that does not involve sacrifice of living things or rituals. The communion of Quakers rather more involves a gathering of spirits, being gathered is the part of God that is found in all people. A gathered meeting is one in which this communion occurs.


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Sahn
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08 Nov 2019, 6:26 pm

blazingstar wrote:
The communion of Quakers rather more involves a gathering of spirits, being gathered is the part of God that is found in all people. A gathered meeting is one in which this communion occurs.

I don't know much about Quakers, except that they got my Grandfather onto a plane from Czechoslovakia to Scotland during WW2. It was The Kindertransport, he was the only adult on a plane full of kids. Before that he had escaped on foot from Hungary.



naturalplastic
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08 Nov 2019, 7:24 pm

domineekee wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
The communion of Quakers rather more involves a gathering of spirits, being gathered is the part of God that is found in all people. A gathered meeting is one in which this communion occurs.

I don't know much about Quakers, except that they got my Grandfather onto a plane from Czechoslovakia to Scotland during WW2. It was The Kindertransport, he was the only adult on a plane full of kids. Before that he had escaped on foot from Hungary.


what did that have to do with Quakers?



Sahn
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08 Nov 2019, 7:33 pm

naturalplastic wrote:
domineekee wrote:
blazingstar wrote:
The communion of Quakers rather more involves a gathering of spirits, being gathered is the part of God that is found in all people. A gathered meeting is one in which this communion occurs.

I don't know much about Quakers, except that they got my Grandfather onto a plane from Czechoslovakia to Scotland during WW2. It was The Kindertransport, he was the only adult on a plane full of kids. Before that he had escaped on foot from Hungary.


what did that have to do with Quakers?

Quote:
The Quakers made their contribution to the various organizational tasks connected with the Kindertransport. As it was becoming increasingly difficult for Jews to travel by public transport, the help offered by Quakers was crucial. The Quakers were outside the railway stations ready to receive the children who had been told to avoid demonstrative farewells on the station platforms, thus avoiding conflict with the police. They had members travelling on the train to the Hook of Holland, ensuring the children were able to leave Germany. (It was not unknown for Jewish emigrants to be taken from the trains and humiliated, and on occasions preventing from leaving). In London Quakers went to Liverpool Street Station to receive the children, organize refreshments, pass them into the care of a foster parent and, finally, arrange for the temporary accommodation of any child who was not met.
Quote:
Another method of gaining entry to Britain was to obtain employment. In effect, this meant applying for the type of job that could not be filled by a British person. At this time such posts were predominantly in domestic service; butlers, maids and cooks. In common with other refugee organizations the Quakers assisted those who wished to use this method of escaping from Nazi Germany and Austria by matching applicants and posts.
Quote:
One way of facilitating entry into Great Britain was to offer a place in a school. There were twelve Quaker boarding schools in Great Britain (all in England) at this time and 100 scholarships were provided so that refugees could attend these schools. Additionally, other financial arrangements were possible, ranging from offering places if the parents could guarantee the first term’s fees to places at reduced fees. Once a young person was attending the school, it was the policy to offer assistance with fees or remission of fees if the parents could no longer meet this expense, and there are recorded instances of individual Quakers or Quaker meetings providing such assistance.

http://jackwhite.net/quakers/kindertransport.html

In fact I think that he may have travelled to Glasgow from Holland but when he arrived in Czechoslovakia he knew that he would be safe. I'm not sure.



sorrowfairiewhisper
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08 Nov 2019, 9:13 pm

Interesting responses. Just wondering how dying counteracts for all sins and when we're all born, we're all born pure, free from sin yet newborns are told they're born into sin.

I'd guess it's part of duality, a sacrifice of someone you love and created done for the sake of forgiveness and an act of love out of something so wicked.

We know murder is a sin, yet sacrifices are routinely offered. It's all satanic really. A bad deed for good reasons ect



aghogday
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09 Nov 2019, 1:24 am

"I don't go into the whole Christian talks but the one thing i've always thought of and seems weird to me, is that, why would an almighty powerful man, make his son mortal and why would Jesus predict such a sacrifice and allow it to occur? Why would you allow anyone, let alone your son do that? why wouldn't g-d make himself mortal and sacrifice himself. Seems weird to me the whole concept?"

Quoting Your Question Here is an Answer in Question Form:

Why Would A Group of Individuals Vote for A Man Who Publicly Admitted
That He Will Shoot Someone on Fifth Avenue And They Will Not Relinquish
Support for His Integrity as Provided With Foresight Like that; the answer
is 'Trump'
Wrote
'That
Part of the
Bible too; and
Still now has the
Same Supporters
Two Thousand Years or so hence;

In other Words, Some People will
Believe Anything they are told;

In other Words, Some Other
People understand there
is a 'Sucker' Born to
Believe a
Snake
Oil
Sales
Person Always Now;
And they Full Take Advantage
Of them as they Reel them in
Not Keeping Their Lies a Secret at all.
In Other Words, it's a Huuuggge Lie that the Same Target Audience Buys.
A Huge Lie Propagated 3 Centuries by Power/Status Hungry Folks after the likely Death of a Little Syrian/
Mexican/Carpenter about 5 Foot One and a Hundred Pounds Guru Looking Dude and not a "Reality Show God".

Other than That In Other Good God (Love) News God Is Real And Is much more interesting than 'that Lame Zombie Story'.

But it is still a bit Fascinating How Irrational So Called Humans Who Call themselves Rational Will Be Still in '2020 Sight'.

And that's Why i go to Church; that and the Fact that i am the Best Dancer and Singer in the Congregation and Prove it too; yes, at close to 60 Years Old With Also Currently the Strongest Legs; Leg Pressing 1340 LBS 12 Reps at a 90 Degree
Range of Movement, 12 Reps Slowly in 100 Seconds. In other Words, i have the Tools to Provide a Valuable Service to Make Folks Actually Happy. The Fact that i wrote A Longest Long Form Epic Free Verse Bible Poem in the History of Humankind at 7.4 MiLLioN Documented Words to Date; and Have Public Danced 12,222 Miles in the Same 74 Months
as Documented in that Longest Long Form Epic Free Verse Bible Poem, to date, surely helps
to make that reality Happen With Proof too as no i wasn't the "Boss's Only Son", i was actually
considered the Weakest Least Smartest Fish in the Aquarium then not able to Speak Until Age 4
Without the Strength to Rake or Mow a Yard; Yes, i was a 'Human Worm' then for all Practical Action at Least, then.

Now i am A Dragon with a HeART SPiRiT and SoUL; to be Clear too; i'm a Bible Writer; i Do Metaphor.

The Whole Point of what i am Writing Here is People In General are So Busy Believing in
Someone else they never save their self. And Yeah; i Have Links to all that Stuff to Prove
it on Request; more than anyone here Will imagine still. Also Over 2000 Selfies of Smiling Beautiful Women With
me at the Dance Hall is guaranteed to Bring A Smile to a Human Face; Who Is Still Human at least 'these days' now.

'Funny' how People will Ignore Lies; and Truth too; When it is Smelling; Dancing and Singing Right in Front of their Face.

It's Never too Late to make a Story Actually come True; Moral of All Stories that Come to Fruition as Stories often do;

And Folks Who Sell Shoes too; 'Pick up the Ball'; 'Just Do It'; And 'Get the Job Done' now; and in my case not MaKinG A Pennywise Cent; unlike the Orange Clown at the Top; And No i don't Bleach my Hair; it's Already Silver and Gold..;)

Clue: The Meek Really Do Inherit the Art of the EartH When They Just Do it now as Bugs Bunny/Snoopy/Tasmanian Devil Will Actually Do Now too..;)

i'm not Challenging 'You' to Believe in God; i'm Challenging You To Really Become a 'Real Jesus' a 'Son' of Flesh and Blood.
(Love for All That is Existence) no matter What Label or Metaphor Ranging From: Fear to Hope to: Love You ASSiGN YouR Self.

Remember too; this is Just Part of 'that' Bible; A Free Verse Epic Longest Long Form Poem Now; 'You' are a Part of my
Never Ending Never Landing Story now; haha; A Real Challenge We All Have is to Write, Direct, Produce, and Act Our Own 'God/Love' Play For Life Loving It All DarK Thru LiGHT; As We Go And or Dance and Sing It for Real Now; Like A Fabulous Broad Way
Show
that
is really real now.


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aghogday
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09 Nov 2019, 1:41 am

By my Way here
is a Poem i wrote
to some of my
Women Friends
(note: to self
Read it to
Wife Next)
This Morning i
Believe This is how
Jesus if he were Real
Would Describe Mary
But to be Clear my
Mother's Name is
Helen a Name
that literally
Metaphorically
Means Bringer oF Light
Breath TaKinG my
Mother’s Last Breath
Passing the Baton of
Inhaling Love to me
She Still Breathes
As She exhales
In all
i Really
Breathe for
All Others as
She did For me
We Never Really Die as
LonG as Our Love Breathes
Oceans Dance
As Water Waves
Create New Loving
Shores of ReaLiTy
When We Dance
As the Ocean
And Breathe
Love We
Live When Either
We Face our Last
Breath or take
That last
Breath
Of those
We Love Most
We Come to the
Realization at Best
That Life is Greatest
As Breath of Love And
All We ever Did for Money
And Stuff is F**KinG Nothing
At All like the next Breath of
Love of our loved one’s last
Breath
That is
Ours to
Continue to
Breathe Love
Or Die no Different
Than a Last Breath Living
Lessons We Never Lose At Best


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09 Nov 2019, 3:59 am

naturalplastic wrote:
God DID sacrifice himself, by....having a human shaped version of himself be martyred by human oppressors on earth.

What other way would there be for him to … go about "sacrificing" himself?


From what I remember when I went through Luther’s Small Cathechism over 30 years ago (for those who don’t know, I was born and raised in a strict Fundamentalist household, where both parents were the black sheep of their respective families (and both families were broken and dysfunctional)), Pastor described what was alluded to in the creeds: the humiliation of God in order to save humans from themselves and sin.



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09 Nov 2019, 4:10 am

Borromeo wrote:
About Abraham & Isaac--it was a lot more than 2000 years ago. It was a test of Abraham's faith, and Isaac was unharmed & went on to found a great line of people. The scene really foreshadows the Passion of Christ--Isaac is the unblemished victim who carries the wood for his own sacrifice up the mountain, and then the sacrifice pleases God but he doesn't die--because they found a ram on the top of the mountain caught in the bushes.

About why God wouldn't sacrifice himself...that seems silly when you think that Jesus Christ is God. He does sacrifice himself.


Why did God need to test his faith if God already knew what the results would be?



Persephone29
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09 Nov 2019, 5:04 am

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Borromeo wrote:
About Abraham & Isaac--it was a lot more than 2000 years ago. It was a test of Abraham's faith, and Isaac was unharmed & went on to found a great line of people. The scene really foreshadows the Passion of Christ--Isaac is the unblemished victim who carries the wood for his own sacrifice up the mountain, and then the sacrifice pleases God but he doesn't die--because they found a ram on the top of the mountain caught in the bushes.

About why God wouldn't sacrifice himself...that seems silly when you think that Jesus Christ is God. He does sacrifice himself.


Why did God need to test his faith if God already knew what the results would be?


He didn't test it for himself(God), he tested it so Abraham would know what he was, the duality of his own nature, how fear can influence decisions and how faith can restore. We cannot be convincing if we have never been brought down and lifted by I AM.


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09 Nov 2019, 7:42 am

Persephone29 wrote:
cubedemon6073 wrote:
Borromeo wrote:
About Abraham & Isaac--it was a lot more than 2000 years ago. It was a test of Abraham's faith, and Isaac was unharmed & went on to found a great line of people. The scene really foreshadows the Passion of Christ--Isaac is the unblemished victim who carries the wood for his own sacrifice up the mountain, and then the sacrifice pleases God but he doesn't die--because they found a ram on the top of the mountain caught in the bushes.

About why God wouldn't sacrifice himself...that seems silly when you think that Jesus Christ is God. He does sacrifice himself.


Why did God need to test his faith if God already knew what the results would be?


He didn't test it for himself(God), he tested it so Abraham would know what he was, the duality of his own nature, how fear can influence decisions and how faith can restore. We cannot be convincing if we have never been brought down and lifted by I AM.

Well, yeah...God already knows what’s going to happen. The issue is WE don’t know. The test of Abraham is to demonstrate his faith so the Hebrew people can count Abraham as a worthy patriarch. It’s a test of legitimacy.

I feel that Jesus’ death isn’t a true sacrifice as we understand it. A true or pure sacrifice means giving up something for nothing in return. Jesus died and resurrected to show us He was the worthy Messiah who takes away the sins of the world. It is God saying to us, “I didn’t make you to sin, but as the Creator I’m owning it. You are blameless.” It’s an apology God never owed us to begin with. If you understand that, that God values you enough to endure mortality, and you accept that, you are reconciled with God though the Son. It’s not giving up everything if Jesus gets His life back. But for God to give up everything would be pointless. We don’t worship a god of death, but the God of life.

I like to tell people that the usual understanding of “take up your cross and follow Me” is all wrong. For most, the cross is an instrument of death. No doubt I’ll endure pain and suffering and persecution in one form or another for being who I am. That’s just a fact of life living in a world broken by sin. My faith, however, shows me I should expect more out of this life. So I like to point out that because Jesus conquered death, when I take up my cross I’m not following my Savior to defeat. I’m following Him to victory.

Christians are often taught an awful “take it up the rear” version of the Gospel. I prefer to teach folks to demand and expect justice for evil. If one of my children gets insulted by another child, I remind him that “words are wind,” to borrow Martin’s phrase. And when it hurts his feelings, I remind him that the boys who say that are idiots. Picture them as some dirty, mentally ill, homeless guy, because often that’s how boys like that end up. We can feel sorry for them. We can pray for them. We can hope they turn their lives around. But a scumbag is a scumbag. Leave them alone. But if they throw things at you or they hit you, use the system and fight back. Demand your teachers take notice. If a teacher doesn’t help, tell me so I can call them out. If that doesn’t work, I’ll take it to the principal. Since it’s a Catholic school, if I can’t get relief that way, I’ll take it to the parish and even the Diocese if I have to and raise all kinds of holy hell along the way. It’s not about revenge, but rather holding people to their word and to the purpose God put them there for. If we are promised victory, we don’t need to wait for death to have it. For some, I know victory IN death is all they’ll have, and I’m ok with that. But I don’t believe it was ever God’s intention to just drop us on this planet and abandon us, pat our heads, and say “now y’all play nice ‘til I get back.”

But we too often treat God that way, like Jesus’ sacrifice is an example to show us to “bend over.” I say if that’s what Jesus died for, the He died for nothing. But in LIVING, Jesus gained EVERYTHING in us. So while I LIVE, I live EXPECTING good things to come out of this life and will work towards making good things happen. Now if I can beat that through my oldest kid’s skull, we’ll be in great shape!



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09 Nov 2019, 8:27 am

So God reveals himself those who are strong in their faith but not to the masses, for them it's a decision based on stories. Why so complicated and why the hurdle to get to heaven or avoid hell? How are we most favourite in all creation when other animals are free from all of that?



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09 Nov 2019, 9:57 am

^^^^ Those are very good questions!


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09 Nov 2019, 4:11 pm

domineekee wrote:
So God reveals himself those who are strong in their faith but not to the masses, for them it's a decision based on stories.

Why can’t it be that God DOES reveal himself to everyone, and nobody has an excuse to reject God?

domineekee wrote:
Why so complicated and why the hurdle to get to heaven or avoid hell? How are we most favourite in all creation when other animals are free from all of that?
Why assume that it’s so complicated? To accept Jesus’ atonement on faith is a yes/no thing. Nothing complicated about it. What hurdle?