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sinsboldly
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18 May 2010, 9:15 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
Since Alex has neglected to post on the subject, after a couple days I will speak on the matter. I have been removed as moderator;

While I will miss being able to help others here as I have, not being a moderator means I can now speak my mind instead of minding my accepted role. Such is life; I hope that we as members can act together to preserve the WrongPlanet we know and love.


M.


Maku, I am saddened by this, and knew it was just a matter of time before Alex reverted to type and dismissed anyone that deigned to speak truth to power. I know your pain and my heart aches for you.

your friend,

Merle



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19 May 2010, 3:30 am

I don't seem to understand that a power of a moderator can change somebodys personality? Especially just to speak a power of truth?


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19 May 2010, 4:15 am

Strange indeed... :?


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sinsboldly
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19 May 2010, 8:30 am

superboyian wrote:
I don't seem to understand that a power of a moderator can change somebodys personality? Especially just to speak a power of truth?


anyone can speak truth to power, Ian. The problem is when those with power don't care for the truth, and . . .because they have the power, can dismiss those that are annoying them with the truth.

Merle


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makuranososhi
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19 May 2010, 10:36 am

superboyian wrote:
I don't seem to understand that a power of a moderator can change somebodys personality? Especially just to speak a power of truth?


You may wish to reread her post, as it doesn't appear you understood the content or context for those comments. It is not a power of truth, but the sad fact that those who are corrupted with power rarely care to listen to the truth, preferring self delusion in its' stead. I am also left wondering where there was any reference to personality change that you referred to. However, I might suggest that you not consider others blind or unaware of the scope of comments you have made, as well...


M.


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DW_a_mom
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19 May 2010, 11:08 am

makuranososhi wrote:
superboyian wrote:
I don't seem to understand that a power of a moderator can change somebodys personality? Especially just to speak a power of truth?


You may wish to reread her post, as it doesn't appear you understood the content or context for those comments. It is not a power of truth, but the sad fact that those who are corrupted with power rarely care to listen to the truth, preferring self delusion in its' stead. I am also left wondering where there was any reference to personality change that you referred to. However, I might suggest that you not consider others blind or unaware of the scope of comments you have made, as well...


M.


Um, Mak, you realize this can be read to uphold Dox's old favorite stance against the moderators? Not everyone gets corrupted by power, although power and it's flip side - responsibility - will inevitably change someone. The tough thing is to have the maturity to balance power and responsibility in an effective and positive way, correct? And to continually check in with oneself to make sure it all remains in proper proportions. I know, of course, Sins wasn't talking about Moderators, and that you aren't, just others might read it that way and, well, we have to be honest that the same concept can apply, just within different limits, since the amount of power is different.


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makuranososhi
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19 May 2010, 1:50 pm

Absolutely, DW - have always been aware of the adage that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And his fear of abuse, at least, isn't something I would ever discard... Dox has made some good points over the years, and I recently commented to him on that fact. Just because he and I disagree ferociously on some subjects doesn't mean I don't have respect for his views. But in this instance, I also have to look further... as you know, DW, being a moderator isn't about power but about responsibility. Moreso, given the structure here, the only person with any power is Alex; as a moderator, I was and you were concerned with maintaining the site according to the rules provided and the ever-shifting and uncommunicated expectations of Alex. And looking back on the roughly 400 pages of conversation, I don't see individuals acting w/o consensus or reactively; more often, those matters rec'd the most discussion. Those posts involving questions to or requests of Alex generally rec'd the least response. While the decisions may not have made everyone happy, they were made after consideration and within the limited framework of the rules, further constrained by a lack of response or clarification from Alex when sought,

Short form, power is among the easiest of abuses, but that structure is inherently needed. Life would not exist in anarchy. It can be cycled, monitored, shared, limited... but ultimately someone has to steer the ship, and with that comes accepting the blame and responsibility when off course. Often complaints come when those steering have a different goal or vision from those complaining, demanding things suit their needs. In application to forums and moderation, it is akin to to walking into another person's home or business and taking/using their things w/o asking and inviting people over for a party. You are welcome to do so in your home, but not in mine - freedom of speech doesn't come with a bully pulpit or disregard for others.


M.


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19 May 2010, 4:56 pm

sinsboldly wrote:
superboyian wrote:
I don't seem to understand that a power of a moderator can change somebodys personality? Especially just to speak a power of truth?


anyone can speak truth to power, Ian. The problem is when those with power don't care for the truth, and . . .because they have the power, can dismiss those that are annoying them with the truth.

Merle


Oh... I get what you are saying now, thanks for explaining it clear enough Merle.


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Jono
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19 May 2010, 5:04 pm

Mak, I'm sorry to hear about your removal as moderator. I thought you were a good one. Also from what you said, I hope thet Alex isn't losing interest in WP. I really like this place.



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19 May 2010, 7:41 pm

Thanks Jono, and to the others who have written me over the past few days - it is greatly appreciated.

Given my personal experience, there is little response from Alex in regards to the site unless it has the potential to affect him personally. All too often, the moderation team was left covering for his absence or lack of response, which is unfortunate and places an unnecessary strain on those who have been asked to volunteer their time and effort to maintain this site. There are a number of questions regarding this matter that have remained unanswered within the moderator's discussion during my time as a moderator; perhaps you will have better success in getting a response. I appreciate and respect WP greatly, as it has been an invaluable asset in understanding myself and my son's situation better; same can be said of the vast majority of the members who have taught me a great deal... it is the actions of an individual that I have no respect for.


M.


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sinsboldly
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19 May 2010, 8:27 pm

I envy your freedom to air your opinions and publicly discuss the situation, as that was what was denied me by Alex when I was de-modded. Not only was I banned but he hacked into my profile and changed my information, putting words in my mouth about how I now knew I was 'wrong' and would treat people nicely from now on. How humiliating it all was.

I am glad he probably just ignores this thread it he has any idea it is here. I don't see how anyone would want to mod for Alex as they learn that neither the 'bad cop' nor the 'good cop' gets any respect for the thousands of hours put towards keeping the site up and running.

Merle



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19 May 2010, 8:49 pm

So I guess this means the site may run with or without him. Reminds me of another one but that's another story...

Kind of rude to create a site and just leave it without letting regular members know.

I have to say out of all the aspie sites, this one's been probably the most tolerable in spite of the few problems I had here. Anyway be great if they could add more additions to this site...just a thought but I guess this is running on public funding? Don't know all the story.


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makuranososhi
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20 May 2010, 12:09 am

sinsboldly wrote:
I envy your freedom to air your opinions and publicly discuss the situation, as that was what was denied me by Alex when I was de-modded. Not only was I banned but he hacked into my profile and changed my information, putting words in my mouth about how I now knew I was 'wrong' and would treat people nicely from now on. How humiliating it all was.

I am glad he probably just ignores this thread it he has any idea it is here. I don't see how anyone would want to mod for Alex as they learn that neither the 'bad cop' nor the 'good cop' gets any respect for the thousands of hours put towards keeping the site up and running.

Merle


What happened to you then was wholly unprofessional, Merle, and I am sad you had to endure it. His decision to misrepresent you while operating under your account is reprehensible. As for freedom... I told Alex, despite his efforts to avoid and ignore the issue (including signing off AIM midstream), that I would be speaking my mind on things since I was no longer constrained by my obligation and responsibility. To allow him the opportunity, I gave almost three full days for him to make a statement instead of a commentary of appeasement; since he chose to remain silent, it fell to me to inform others of the change and try to explain things from my perspective. Tomorrow, my account could be gone, although I have gone to extraordinary lengths to be compliant with the rules (as written, at least) and avoid any direct personal commentary.

As for the funding... that's a good question, MissC. There are a lot of questions left unanswered as one digs deeper into the behind-the-scenes operations, ones that were not responded to when posed by me (or others) as a moderator either. I don't have answers there, although based on pieces of various discussions, bits of evidence and admittedly some hearsay, I do have some conjecture - but that is a different conversation entirely.


M.

If anyone wishes to reach me, feel free to request my email via PM. While I will not be leaving WP (voluntarily, at least), I will not necessarily be as present as I have been in the past.


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For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

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DW_a_mom
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20 May 2010, 1:51 am

makuranososhi wrote:
Absolutely, DW - have always been aware of the adage that power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And his fear of abuse, at least, isn't something I would ever discard... Dox has made some good points over the years, and I recently commented to him on that fact. Just because he and I disagree ferociously on some subjects doesn't mean I don't have respect for his views. But in this instance, I also have to look further... as you know, DW, being a moderator isn't about power but about responsibility. Moreso, given the structure here, the only person with any power is Alex; as a moderator, I was and you were concerned with maintaining the site according to the rules provided and the ever-shifting and uncommunicated expectations of Alex. And looking back on the roughly 400 pages of conversation, I don't see individuals acting w/o consensus or reactively; more often, those matters rec'd the most discussion. Those posts involving questions to or requests of Alex generally rec'd the least response. While the decisions may not have made everyone happy, they were made after consideration and within the limited framework of the rules, further constrained by a lack of response or clarification from Alex when sought,

Short form, power is among the easiest of abuses, but that structure is inherently needed. Life would not exist in anarchy. It can be cycled, monitored, shared, limited... but ultimately someone has to steer the ship, and with that comes accepting the blame and responsibility when off course. Often complaints come when those steering have a different goal or vision from those complaining, demanding things suit their needs. In application to forums and moderation, it is akin to to walking into another person's home or business and taking/using their things w/o asking and inviting people over for a party. You are welcome to do so in your home, but not in mine - freedom of speech doesn't come with a bully pulpit or disregard for others.


M.


This thought process is why I will miss you as a moderator so much. You are always so interesting, and I don't know if this is really the right word, but so much "fun" to hash all the tough stuff over with.


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Last edited by DW_a_mom on 20 May 2010, 2:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

DW_a_mom
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20 May 2010, 1:59 am

sinsboldly wrote:
I don't see how anyone would want to mod for Alex as they learn that neither the 'bad cop' nor the 'good cop' gets any respect for the thousands of hours put towards keeping the site up and running.

Merle


OK, I understand that, but I want more mod's, we need more mod's, and can we not shoot that process in the foot before we can even get it started ;) ???

Merle, I've been speaking my mind pretty directly where Alex should be reading it (even if he may not) about the issues I had with the handling of your situation, and the issues I have with what just happened with Mak. I continue with the job, as you know, for the same reason others have, at least while able: I care about this place. Maybe others will care enough, too, to be willing to do what they can between a rock and a hard place if Alex hands them the tools. I hope that when Alex gets around to acting on the suggestions that have been given to him multiple times now, they will be willing to try. But, yeah, it should be pretty obvious by now that no one is in it for the "glory," eh?

Wish I had both you and Mak back on as moderators ...


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20 May 2010, 2:38 am

{Due to my academic obligations, where I shall be relocating soon too (happy news for my PhD), I am not an active moderator and had essentially left the Wrong Planet. I am "on" now as I'm in the midst of relocating overseas.}

I have more than just respect for our moderators, you are all my friends. Merle, I am sincerely sorry for how you were treated as you've contributed more than imaginable for the Wrong Planet. Maku, my same sentiments. DW_a_mom, your posts are invaluable and I regard you as the "Wrong Planet mom."

Perhaps most especially, the Culture of Autism has emerged with all of us (the Wrong Planet) as a concerted whole. I sometimes wonder what Dr. Hans Asperger would think if he were alive. I am not privy as to what has transpired but I believe we'll overcome this dilemma. But so sorry for those who have been hurt and mistreated in this way.



V8 sends his love - the robot with the big heart who "invited" himself to the Wrong Planet :heart: