Political correctness regarding weight issues

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Like I said to Awesomelyglorious, are you a doctor? Do you do medical research? Are you a medical professional?

Your whole big long message is meaningless and irrelevant, it is just your opinion with NO EVIDENCE to support it. You basically just fabricated the whole thing just simply because it is what you want to believe; what makes you feel good to believe. Show me EVIDENCE! Your medical statements have no credibility unless you substantiate them with evidence.

Whereas me, I am reporting what government medical researchers have found, with real hard evidence to back it up. Like I said to Awesomelyglorious, who should I believe? You who makes all these wild claims with no evidence to support them, OR the CDC which is a government organization with professional medical researchers?

Ok, for one the BMI is not scientifically created. It is pseudo-scientific, "Problems
The first problem with the BMI is that it is not scientific but pseudo-scientific. Like the old American height-weight charts, it is not a product of medical research ". The BMI is not really an ideal measurement of weight due to its lack of consideration of all of the factors involved. I have read an article(not on the internet) that talked about how other measurements were really better than the BMI but were just harder to use.

Weight is very hard to get rid of. Nobody chooses to be overweight, it is just that fat is very hard to get rid of. Reducing your food intake a total of 3,500 calories over a period of time will not get rid of a pound of fat even though they are the same amount in terms of energy. The body was designed to keep weight, we were designed to pack on the pounds if possible simply because it is an old fashioned survival technique. Whenever a person tries to lose weight their metabolism tries to decrease thus making weight loss even harder to accomplish, the fact that many people try to lose weight at an unhealthy pace(largely due to social factors such as looks and possibly the judgement of others) means that many diets are not sustainable in the long run and people relapse and get even fatter due to the decreased metabolism from the weight-loss attempt, the body gains more weight as weight-loss seems like starvation to the body.

Genetics plays a big role in weight as the weights of adopted children corresponds more to the weights of their genetic family than their adopted family even though the adopted family does the feeding of course. Identical twins have very similar weights even if they are raised by different families. If the environment(like is similar to what you suggest) is the most important factor than different environments would produce different weights. Although, there is a fat virus that was discovered by Dr. Nikhil V. Dhurandhar, the virus actually causes weight gain, it is weird.

Even though you may consider these traits bad, you will have to admit that they are hard things to change and to inconsiderately see them as moral deficiencies is a flawed world outlook. Many people try to lose weight, losing weight is a billion dollar industry but it is hard to lose weight and to keep it off. Also, psychologists have noted that people from cultures without the "thin-ideal", like in Ghana, suffer less eating disorders than we do in America. By the way, I am getting much of this from a psychology book that I am reading for school, I cannot give you a link to this, sorry.

I will give you links to what I do have.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_mass_index#Problems
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikhil_Dhurandhar
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#Medicalization_of_obesity
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity#Societal_causes

Really though, I think that your attitude towards this issue is not very positive or beneficial. It reinforces harmful ideas that create this obsession for the ideal weight that leads to bullimia and anorexia. I know that you are opposed to both extremes but severity(which was the idea you expressed in the original post and the foundation of this argument) is not the ideal thing to have in this situation. Very few people choose to be fat, cruelty to this group is stupid, pointless and wrong no matter how you slice it. Many people at this site have weight problems due to side effects of medications and although I am not one of them, I do think that they would appreciate a bit more kindness towards them.

I have only read a bit of this debate.

Rather then debate I just wanted to put my own experience with weight and exercise and criticism in.

I had a friend who thinks I don't exercise enough, as I don't do any vigorous exercise or anything that gets my heart racing. I generally do walking and have done the odd yoga class (which I want to get back into).

My experience is that for both myself and others, telling people what they should improve with their health, doesn't work, as it comes across as criticism. This is because people's bodies are part of their self image

When I've had someone constantly tell me to exercise in a particular way, it just makes me emotional, and my body actually holds on to the weight. Also when I took Aropax (Paxil/Seroxat depending on where in the world you are) I gained 10kg.

In 2004 I gained another 10kg in 3 months from eating chocolate and a personal situation I was going through. In 2005 I lost 20kg, and am back to what I weighed in my early 20's. I have also found that I have some mild food intolerance, which makes me bloated ie my tummy sticks out, possibly making me look fat to some people.

Basically weight is an emotional issue so don't pick on people's weight. Encourage what they do, properly, and if you are that interested in these issues, become a personal trainer.

I just wanted to add I recently read that MSG which is parodoxically found in low fat processed food can actually make people eat more!

Last edited by emc on 23 Apr 2006, 3:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Actually, and I really should've mentioned this, a lot of what I wrote in that post is a hodgepodge of scientific studies and the health articles that interpreted the results that I have absorbed over the years-I like to keep up with that sort of thing. I didn't include any links because I'm too pressed for time to go hunting down all those articles, although I decided to find some this time just for the heck of it as I have a bit of free time. Also, I've taken quite a few biology, anatomy, and chemistry classes (I was a clinical lab sciences major before switching over to English, and no I didn't switch because I was doing poorly in it, in case you were wondering) so I've picked up a few things from there too. I've read scientific studies confirming that humans evolved to like the taste of fat and that biology, evolution, and culture plays an important role in explaining why so many people are overweight now (here's an article explaining this and a lot of other things: http://www.harvard-magazine.com/on-line/050465.html), that cholesterol is affected not just by diet but by heredity, meaning a thin, active person can have high cholesterol, and that weight involves many complex factors, some of which we can control and some of which we can't (more on that later), and that there are many different things involved with keeping healthy. And yes, doing those things may lessen one's weight, but not always, and sometimes people start doing these things after they become overweight, and safe weight loss can be a long, slow process (not the kind that comes about using fad diets and popping pills, which negative attitudes about weight encourage-that's just human nature and psychology there). And also, it's quite obvious to me (and I've read studies on this too) that people with lower incomes generally can't afford healthier food, that more inexpensive food contains ingredients that contribute to obesity (such as high fructose corn syrup, here's a link to an article linking it with obesity http://www.eatright.org/cps/rde/xchg/ad ... U_HTML.htm ), and here's a quote from the article in Harvard magazine I linked to confirming this in case you missed it:
It's also obvious that people who live in dangerous neighborhoods can't just go out and go for a run, and people with disabilities that restrict their mobility can't either. Also, I just finished reading an excellent book written by an economic expert and professor in sociology at Boston University that discusses, among other things, the way advertising by the junk food industry as well as the crud they put in food has contributed to childhood obesity (and why it's not always or completely the parents' or childrens' fault) Born to Buy, by Juliet Schor. Here is a link to a site that explains why traditional dieting (restricting calories) is counterproductive: http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner ... bolism.htm
Here's another article that explains the harmful cycle of dieting-binging-dieting, as well as providing a summary of the factors involoved in weight gain that we have no control over: http://www.lifeclinic.com/focus/weight/metabolism.asp. Here's a link to a study on the influence of genetics over factors that influence weight, such as metabolism and food preferences: http://www.nutritionupdates.org/archives/free/69.pdf. It's also obvious to me that, because of the often busy, harried lifestyles people in the West lead, a lot of people are probably just too stressed out and tired and busy to take the time to eat right and exercise. I'm not saying it's an excuse, but it is an explanation. Here is a link discussing sociocultural influences on eating, weight and shape including eating disorders (although it should be noted that eating disorders have many and complex causes): http://www.webmd.com/content/article/83/97766.htm

Although, if you ask me, all the scientific studies in the world shouldn't have to convince someone that overweight and underweight people should be treated with respect. The fact that they are human beings with inherent worth and dignity should, and if I can't convince you of that, well, I probably can't convince you of anything. These are people just like us trying to do the best they can with what they have. Many underweight people (and yes I am offended by your criticism of them by the way) are dealing with very serious psychological problems that they usually can't help or control without professional help and many girls and women and men too are struggling with the very unhealthy ideas about weight from our culture. They're also in a great deal of danger: eating disorders have a higher death rate than any other psychiatric disorder (and yes, that's a scientific fact). Overweight people often face discrimination and harassment, and that can really make a person feel rotton about themselves and I'll bet anything it's just contributing to unhealthy behaviors like eating for comfort or restricting dieting or popping pills because they're made to feel so guilty and miserable-in other words, criticism doesn't do a thing to help. And, with all the self-esteem issues and health problems they already face, why make things harder on them by disrespecting them? Weight loss is hard, and it takes a great deal of time and energy. If they don't respect themselves, it's probably because they've been made to feel like mold by these kinds of attitudes. Underweight and overweight people are dealing with a lot more serious issues than whatever unpleasantness you feel when you look at them. If you were overweight and knew what it was like, I'm sure you would've never made that post and I wouldn't be here writing this right now. How 'bout having a little sympathy and compassion for your fellow human beings, eh?

Midge -- none of the info you posted really refutes the argument that being under/overweight is unhealthy. The articles you have posted are just issues that can be taken into account. The primary argument remains unrefuted: Being under/overweight is a disease. You are doing a disservice to people, making them think it is OK to ignore their disease.

They have my sympathy and support if they are making a reasonable effort to be healthy. Whereas if they are not even trying... then I am sorry, but I cannot respect such a person.

Believe it or not, I have been in a relationship with someone who was significantly overweight: I accepted it because she had the right attitude and was making a real effort to fix it. I respected her efforts.

On the other hand, one time there was a girl who wanted to have a relationship with me, she was overweight, but she absolutely insisted that she did not need to bother doing anything about it, despite it being a medically established fact that being significantly overweight causes health problems such as diabetes, cardiovascular problems, etc etc. So I said No. Bugger it, I do not have to tolerate people who are deluding themselves and trying to blame society rather than taking responsibility for their own problems.
If people cannot take responsibility for their own problems and insist on laying the blame elsewhere, they are immature.

Look at all the problems being overweight causes, here is a quote from the CDC:

Last edited by emp on 23 Apr 2006, 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

This is where you need to sort your act out. You come across as a fanatical bigot. You should sort out your attitudes to other human beings - your prejudice and bigotry towards people who aren't as fanatical as you is arguably much more unhealthy than people's physical shape.

I may be overweight, but I can lose weight. You will always be an intolerant waster who isn't worth giving the time of day to.

I have NO criticism of you because you have stated that you are working on your weight issue and feeling better for it, etc. Regarding your comment above, I will not respond to it (other than this) because it is just an emotional retaliation and I do not wish to be further drawn into such an argument with you.

Hmm... that last comment seems a bit more balanced than your original post. Pretty much you value health and you don't want to be with somebody that doesn't. The first post was questioning the importance of respect towards the overweight which comes across negatively. You are right that obesity is a bad thing but it is definitely not ultimate evil, there is nothing wrong with supporting good health so long as you make efforts not to be too negative towards those with poor health.

I say that you are right to support good health, but should try to be sensitive to the feelings of others. Personally, I think that as a society we should promote fitness(as opposed to thinness) in our culture and that we should possibly tax unhealthy foods in order to deal with the situation, maybe even subsidize health facilities as well. However, I don't see negative attitudes as getting us anywhere. Weight is related to self-image and attacking somebody's weight ends up attacking that self-image more than anything(which was said earlier). Weight is a personal problem and they are responsible for dealing with it and frankly I think that they should be responsible for the health problems that come with it as well as I don't want to subsidize their poor choices in terms of health.

That is correct.


If I see a person who is under/overweight, I do not mention or discuss their weight. However if they raise the topic, or ask me for advice on an issue related to their weight, then I express the medical facts and my opinion in all its glorious brutal honesty, and they may be upset by this because the reality of the situation is not very pleasant. Tough titties.

So it is not something that I would normally initiate. I did initiate it in this case, but it was directed at no-one in particular and no-one was required or obligated to read or respond to this topic.


I agree!

Another thing that pisses me off is when overweight friends complain to me about their asthma, when they know very well that it has been found that being overweight makes asthma worse. Therefore they are CHOOSING to make their asthma worse. They just want to complain without making a reasonable effort to solve their problem. I HATE that.

It is like they deliberately smash their head against a brick wall, and then for the next hour I am forced to listen to them wail, "Oh it hurts! It hurts! Oh the blood! I'm bleeding! Look at all the blood! I'm in such pain! Poor me!" So stop smashing your head against the wall, you frickin' moron!! !

It would not be so bad if it only happened once, but a month passes and then the same thing happens AGAIN! And again, and again, and again! So damn annoying. Yes, it happened again today. Whining masochists ought to be taken outside and shot.

Mono-sodum Glutomate is a very dodgy additive. Although It is claimed to dehydrate you less then salt I find that very hard to believe considering you know when you've eaten something with MSG in it because you can feel it dry out your mouth. It is notoriously addictive just like salt. You think with the invention of the refrigerator we would of given up using salt all together but it seems someones making money out of a salt addicted population. We should follow the canadian example and ban the use of MSG in food.

It is also time that the food industry and argriculture realise that the over processing and industrialisation of peoples diets is having a detremental effect on the population as a whole.

Ah see that isn't technically asthma that you could be referring too. See people who have the more progressed onset of cardio-vascular disease have a kind of "asthma" like sympton. If anything your concern shouldn't be to bolster your own ego by putting them down the way you are. Thats your problem if you cannot see the communication boundary your putting up here. You cannot verbally beat people down into submission the human mind does not work that way. A hollistic approach would make all the differance, you can look up what that is yourself. Someone else has pointed out the flaws in your approach already so I won't repeat it.

Your friends that are complaining of this may actually be at this very moment suffering from very serious health conditions and should actually visit a doctor ASAP. If they do have this asthma like sympton I am thinking of then they most likely have Hyper Tension and a more developed stage of cardio-vascular disease will probably need to be prescribed statins, something to treat the hyper tension. There cholesterol is going to be through the roof anyway, what a truly horrid state to end up in in the first place. If this is in america then I have no sympathy as the level of health awareness is attrocious considering how easy to access the information is becoming these days.

Laz -- They already do see doctors about it. They are not self-diagnosed.

Re my ego, there is nothing in my previous message that compliments or praises me, nor is there any boasting about my achievements or abilities, therefore there is nothing in it to boost my ego. It does not make any sense to claim that my previous message is an ego-boosting exercise for myself. If I want to boost my ego, I talk about how great *I* am. Complaining about the actions of other people is unrelated to my ego.

emp: "I hate those idiots who are racist."
Laz: "Stop bolstering your own ego."
emp: "?????"

emp, you astound me! I stand in awe.

Hey, stop that, I am not supposed to have my ego bolstered. The doctors here have told me that it is contra-indicated. Apparently it is bad for my blood pressure.

Make sure you listen carefully to your doctors. If you don't, your head may explode!