Aspartners: My responses

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I'm not going to go point by point through your last posts, cubedemon6073, because I think you answered a lot of my questions. But I'll touch on a couple of them:

As far as asking questions and expecting honest answers, that's a tough one unfortunately. And you're right. It really shouldn't be. How else do we find answers than by asking? But people do get offended or bored or whatever when the wrong question is asked at the wrong time. I suspect, though, that some of that stems from people not knowing the answer themselves, or not being comfortable with the answers they have. This is something I've noticed about my son. He'll pick at something until he fully understands it, well after the people he's asking questions of have run out of any answer except, "Because it IS!" I don't think this is true in every case, but I get the feeling it is true a fair bit of the time.

Here's a great one to try on someone: "Why is the sky blue?" Watch how fast they get to "Because it is!" (In case anyone thinks this simple question has a simple answer, I watched someone sweat bullets over this during a doctoral defense. By the time they finally let him give up, he was up to his neck in quantum physics and scattering equations. The real answer to this one really is, "Because it is." We don't know enough to say for sure.)

You make a really good point about the psychopath. In all honesty, I don't know. I've seen that line drawn to include schizophrenics, but one of the most interesting people to talk to on the TS forums back in the day was someone with severe schizophrenia. It was eye-opening to see how they reasoned. Impaired? I guess you could lay claim to that. But I never would've made the leaps of intuition they made. It was a little humbling. But no, I don't like the idea of having warm fuzzy feelings for someone like Son of Sam. I do have a line. I just don't know where I draw it. As you put it, even what I believe has problems and issues.

On positive attitude and common sense, I honestly think sense isn't all that common. Sense is something developed over a lifetime of experiences. When I was four, I didn't have a lot of experience under my belt. For me to sensibly think I could fly was reasonable. Once I fell out of the tree and went thump to the ground a few times, it was no longer sensible to believe I could fly. Unfortunately this model of building experience isn't used as much any more. A kid jumps off the top of the swing set at the playground, and instead of the parents saying, "Well now you know you can't fly without wings," they say, "I'm suing the city for having an unsafe playground!" Where's the lesson to be learned here? Will that kid ever develop so-called common sense? Or will they develop an innate knowledge that someone else can be made to pay for their mistakes? (Sorry, on a soap box here.)

This goes back to the idea of it taking all kinds. To someone brought up in the woods, there's a common sense way to stand when wielding an axe on a tree. To someone brought up in the city, there's a common sense way to read what they see on a street and know if they want to walk down it. Heaven help either one if they're in the other's environment. Not so common, is it?

The word grunt isn't offensive to me. I've been one far too much to put on airs about the term. Grunt it is. But I think personality applies with grunt level jobs as well. I like your dish washing example. Here's another one I'll toss in that's similar: I used to shelve books at a library, one of my favorite jobs ever. We picked up discards people left on the tables and chairs and took in the returned books they sent up from the front desk. These were then separated into ranges by call number. Then we would sort each range onto what we called ready-to-shelve carts, and one of us would walk around the floor re-shelving books from the cart. As long as the floor was in good shape and books were put away, the manager didn't really interact with us.

The call of which task most needed doing was entirely up to us, though. While shelving an RTS cart, if one of us noticed books were piling up on tables and chairs, we'd finish shelving that cart, then walk around and pick up discards back into the same cart. If it was really bad, we'd find the other person and we'd both jam on that. If I knew I was working with someone who really just needed to shelve for whatever reason (needed the quiet, doesn't like to interact with patrons, just needs to think, etc.) I'd offer to do the pickup while they shelved. If they really needed the isolation that day, they might opt to build the RTS carts while I ran around the floor picking up discards and shelving. Or vice-versa.

It's not so much that everyone has to have this brash outgoing press-the-flesh flash-the-smile personality to work. Far from it. It's that personalities have an impact on the workplace.

I'll get back to this more in a bit. First I want to jump forward to the idea of any and all other duties as required.

I've had this in my job description at a couple of jobs. One was this tiny company that was constantly on the verge of going under. We worked paycheck to paycheck. Sometimes toward the end of the month the HR person would come around with this worried look on their face mumbling things like, "I don't think we're going to make it this month." We all had to eat. So we did whatever we had to do to make sure the company made enough money for us to get paid. For the record, this is very very stressful. I don't thrive in that kind of environment, so I got out. Others loved it. It takes all kinds.

I have it in my current job description, too. Again, we're a pretty small company in a service industry. Our whole task is to make sure a facility is ready for operation every single day without fail. As I like to put it, some days this means I'm designing or making things. Other days it means I'm sweeping and mopping the floor. We're too small for the manager to make all the calls. And yeah, sometimes we make the wrong ones. I feel bad when I do, but one of the people I work with likes to remind people that we're not saving lives for crying out loud. The consequences of a screw-up can be bad, but never that bad. We move on.

When we hire new people, everyone is involved in the process. Everyone gets to weigh in. Personality comes into it. Most people ask the interviewee technical questions, but I tend not to. I tend to ask questions that give me a clue to their character. Not to judge them, but to better understand them. If my question is blown off, mmmm maybe they won't listen to my questions if we do hire them. If they think a lot about the question and then provide an answer (ANY answer) I know they will think before they act. If they have a ready and appropriate answer they just fire back at me, I know they will follow their gut instincts and damn the consequences. There's no right or wrong answer to the question. It's how it's answered that matters more.

I'm probably going off on a tangent at this point, so I'll stop.

Your last point brought a smile to my face. Honestly, I agree with you. People do get entrenched in their own opinions (a polite euphemism for head-up-ass syndrome) to the point where they DON'T reason. They don't have to. They already know best, even if their best is wrong.

I'll be gladly to tell my story but not right now since it be a lot to wrote about. Do you want it told here or in PM?


@viewuphere, you're so right about asking questions. It seems to be socially unacceptable to ask. From my experience I see a lot at Babycenter when women ask curious questions, they get chewed out and get bullied by other women because they accuse the OP of being judgmental and tell her to get off her high horse. I once asked about why do some pregnant women gain a lot of weight and I only gain three pounds by 20 weeks and I got lot of meanness in the thread and trollish and nasty behavior. When I told them I asked a simple question and I was curious and if they get mad at people for being ignorant, people are going to be too afraid to ask questions and people stay ignorant that way because they be too afraid of asking so they wouldn't be ignorant anymore. I got told to grow up. Plus I think I was clear enough in my answer so I don't see why it be taken out of context and misinterpreted, I just think they were looking for a fight anyway and were jealous so they targeted me and they were just mean women. Months later lot of them got banned from the group and came back and trolled the group and they were pissed they weren't allowed to be mean anymore and make fun of people. They were mad they were forced to follow the rules. Lot of them left and some got banned and very few stayed. Lot of people think they are entitled to be jerks online because it's the internet. I think lot of people use the internet as an excuse to be jerks. They are too coward to do it in real life so they do it online because what is the worst that can happen? Getting flamed from their victim? Getting their inbox flooded with spam? Being called a name from their victim? Or just getting banned because their victims reported them? Hey you can just create a whole new account right?

But yeah people do get mad when you ask questions and when you are ignorant about something so you had to ask. I will never understand why ignorance pisses people off when they ask a question because doesn't that mean they don't want to be ignorant so they are asking? What is the logic in getting mad at them for being ignorant? How does that help them be un ignorant? I don't care if you were offended or insulted, the person asked a question, answer it nicely and educate the person without attacking them. Feelings may be never wrong but actions are.

Also when I worked my last job, my office clerk always got mad at me for asking because he thought I wasn't listening so I stopped asking questions and would try and figure it out myself but then he told me if I don't understand, just ask. I can't win.

Also I am guilty of this myself. I have gotten mad when people would ask me questions. Why? Because I thought what I said was simple and clear and how could the other person still not understand? I was talking to a brick wall and no matter how many times I tried to explain it, the other person was still confused. It puts me into a meltdown. It's like trying to tell a person the color is blue and no matter how many times you tell them the color is not red, it's blue, you get frustrated because they are not listening. But yet if it was a two year old, you will just drop it and not even try and explain it because they don't know any better. You will find yourself having more patients with the two year old vs with an 11 year old. I had this a lot with my ex. How could he not understand the cost of gas or the cost of living, anything a person would understand at 20 years old. It was something I'd expect from a teen but not from a 20 year old.

Okay so the reason why people get mad when you ask is because they think you know better and they are mad you are dense about it. People are quick to throw out "idiot" and "stupid" because they didn't know about something. People are saying people are idiots for not knowing who Bin Laden was nor knew anything about 9/11. That doesn't upset me, it just shocks me because how could they have missed it? It was all over the news, at work, in school, on newsstands in stores, everywhere, plus you hear it from other people, were they that sheltered? I get that not everyone watches the news but even though you never watch it nor read about it, you still find out about it because people will be talking about it. Your friends, your neighbors, your family, people at work, plus you hear about it online. It's impossible to miss. You have to be very sheltered to not know about it. That means not using the internet, you don't see your family nor talk to them, you don;t work, you don't ever talk to your neighbors nor do they ever talked to you. You have never gone to school. That's how sheltered you need to be, same as never going to the store. So it just shocks me while it upsets other people. I do not understand why it's upsetting. I knew who Bin Laden was because I was told who he was when I was 16. I heard his name and asked who is he and dad told me. I knew since then. I knew about 9/11 because of my school. They had us watch the news about it all day. But I was extremely naive about it when it happened and I didn't know it was terrorism and didn't understand what hijacking meant. But I remember I got chewed out about it when I was 18 just because I didn't understand it at first when I was 16 but I was a teen for god sakes and lot of teens in my school didn't seem to care about it either. I was telling about it from my 16 year old perspective so I don't get why it upset that person so much. Would he be upset if an adult told about 9/11 from their two year old perspective or from their seven year old perspective because they were also "cold hearted?" I wished I had asked him that back then too but never thought of it then. Plus I used to make jokes about it and I didn't understand then why it be so offensive. I was told that was why he thought I was cold hearted because of the humor I did back then too. But I still think it's stupid to get mad at someone for something they did when they were children because it be like me getting mad at someone for something they did when they were six and chew them out about it at age 20 when they told me the story. As if they were still guilty and that same person. And ignorance is expected in 16 year olds about life because they "don't know any better." They're still children.

But I get sometimes why asking questions sometimes upsets people. All I have to do is think of my ex and why I would get mad at him for asking. It was his ignorance and he was an adult so I expected him to know better. Uh what kind of adult wouldn't understand about bills and money and gas prices? Plus him not getting things also got on my nerves. I explain something and he still wouldn't get it so it frustrate me because I felt he was so dumb. I then knew that is how I appear to others so they must think I am dumb as well. That is why I pretend to get things and don't keep on asking when I still don't get it. I don't want to piss them off. My parents also thought my ex was semi ret*d. (I mean literally, you know low IQ). Sometimes my mother doesn't get things either I know and it's frustrating when she still doesn't get it when I keep trying to explain it to her. That is why people get mad when you ask questions. You think they should know better, you think they should get it because it's so easy to understand.

I don't know if my ex had MR or not but because he looked so normal and sounded normal and didn't act ret*d, I didn't have patience like I normally would for someone with it. Plus he claimed to be very logical and very smart. So I think that is another reason why I'd get frustrated with him because if he is so logical and so smart, he should get it then. Okay I think that was a false assumption on my part, there are disabilities out there that make it harder for people to understand, even simple things so I took it too literal what he said (anyone would, I think). An aspie can claim to have above average IQ and I bet people would be thinking if that aspie is so smart, he should be able to know what is inappropriate to say and how it would make someone feel and he should read cues and body language since he is so smart. I bet this is something people with hidden disabilities struggle with, that ignorance they get from other people. Even I was one of them because I expected my ex to know better since he was so smart and logical. I realize now he may have had other problems I didn't realize and just thought he was making excuses and being lazy and a jerk. But he was a jerk anyway and lazy and did mind games but then again I could be wrong. It's possible I misunderstood him and he may not have known either what was going on and what was wrong with him. He didn't have other labels but I knew he had ADHD but I didn't really understand it. I thought I did but I didn't realize his other behavior may have been due to it but he did refuse to try and help himself. He was full of excuses and played mind games so how was I going to know what problems were genuine and what were not. That is what happens when someone with a disability plays mind games and makes up excuses, it makes it hard for other people to know when their problems are genuine and they won't take their problems seriously.

League_Girl

I believe we are on to something. Maybe this is one of the major roots of the problems that plague our country. It is the notion of common sense and the belief that one ought to know x because they're y age. Maybe it is time to re-examine this notion. Could it be possible that we all have different thoughts, brain wiring, and beliefs then each other. In addition, what if we all as human beings have biases, prejudices and wrong information about various things and ideas.

I have another theory. What if a person does not know how to do something or about something because they were never taught? What if they were never taught because everyone in their life thought the person already knew and should automatically know. You say your ex should know gas prices and bills because he is an adult and my question to you is why should he automatically know about these things and how to handle these things just because he is an adult?

What if this is one reason why sometimes parents have problems with their children.

I'm not trying to personally attack you but I want to help make humanity better and the world better. I want the next generations of aspies to have better futures. I believe one way to accomplish this is I believe that people in general need to question other people's assumptions and their own assumptions. Finally, I want people to do some more thinking in general.

Yes, Please post your story about your ex here. Please post as much background information or context about him as possible.

Honestly, I have a lot of questions and it seems that every time I get a question answered I have more questions. I have more questions then answers.

Cube

Isn't that the truth!

cubedemon6073, I understand what you mean about someone not knowing something because they were never taught. League_Girl, when I got out of high school I knew people who sound a lot like your ex. Gas? That's just something you put in your car. This plastic card you put in the machine gives it to you magically. Bills? What are those? Somebody else takes care of those. So what? That's how they thought. It isn't until they are off on their own and run out of money that they begin to learn.

Your story about the women on Babycenter is a little frightening. As you pointed out, a child really doesn't know everything and will ask questions one after the other. If these are women who had children, what are they doing to their children when THEY ask questions? I hope they don't flame them for being inquisitive.

I've heard this one attributed to Albert Einstein, but I've heard something similar attributed to Ernest Rutherford: "If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself." Given this definition, there is a LOT I don't understand.

I am sure they have more tolerance for children asking questions and being ignorant because it's expected and they don't know any better.

I knew what bills were as a teen because my parents told me. It's where you pay for water sewer, trash, your house, your car, your cable and internet, phone, electric, etc. Those are bills.

Gas, I knew it costs money. I was ignorant about it too as a kid but I learned it was per gallon and it all added up. I looked at the pump when I put gas in my parents car when I was 17 and I knew. I drove then. My ex drove but he has driven without a license so I am sure he paid for his own gas and he had a job before and had a bank account. He had a car too. Could his parents have paid for gas and didn't have him fill it up?


Cube, reason why I thought my ex should know is because nothing isn't free, we all have to pay rent, house mortgages, cable, internet, phone, electric, food, gas, car. Who wouldn't know that? My ex thought it was "ret*d" we all had to pay for stuff. He used that word not me. Anything he didn't like was "ret*d." He didn't like paying rent, didn't like paying for gas, didn't like paying for food and didn't like taxes. I explained to him everything costs money because it keeps our country running. If we had stuff be free, no one would be working because we all be too lazy to work because why work? There be no food because no one would be delivering it to stores, he wouldn't be able to buy his movies or computer games or his magic the gathering cards because no one would want to deliver them to the stores, he wouldn't be able to get more gas because no one would want to deliver it to the stations. There be no doctors and nurses, there be no teachers, there be no one to do stuff for us because why work if everything is free? We'd all get lazy. So money is what keeps things going. If we have to pay for everything, we will work for it to keep a roof over our heads and keep being able to eat. So my ex decided then things we need should be free but things we want shouldn't be free and I told him that wouldn't work either because people still get lazy. They would only want to work when they want money and then quit. Then he decided everyone would have to work and everything be free and I told him that wouldn't work either because then we all be slacking off and not doing our jobs right and we wouldn't care if we got fired. It be like a free vacation. What if he had to go to the hospital and the doctor didn't do his job right because he wasn't be paid to do it? He just slacked off doing it and didn't work his hardest trying to see what the problem was.

My ex even had an idea that we should all be given things we need like a car and house and if you want something, you should apply for it and you will get it. Like if you want an xbox, you apply for it and you will get it. I also didn't agree there.

I just think he thought this way because he didn't want to work and didn't like paying bills. He wanted the money for himself. It was all "ret*d." Gas prices were "ret*d" also and paying to live and paying to eat. He just didn't like it. He always complained about it. He was like a big kid stuck inside a 20 year old's body. Lot of kids want money for themselves and don't want to spend it on bills or things they need. They want to spend on things they want. I was the same way and then when I became an adult and got Social security, I all of a sudden changed because I was an adult and it had to be that way now. Mom told me I'd be paying for my own gas now and for my own stuff I need like pads or shampoo. I wasn't in high school anymore and I got Social Security so mom said I had to pay for it now because I am now an adult and it's for me to become independent. she helped me figure out a budget and showed me how much spending money I'd have left after paying for what I need and the rent.

My ex was also against paying parents rent and thought it was "ret*d" that parents make their kids pay them rent. I also thought that too as a kid, I thought it was stupid. Then when I became an adult, I realized it was that way because why should parents keep supporting their kids when they are adults and using their electricity and water, eating their food. But I changed my mind about it when I got out of high school. I wouldn't want to keep supporting my adult child so if they paid rent, I wouldn't have to worry about paying more bills because they are making up for it.

But you're right, why do we expect more out of people when they are adults and out of high school? Why do we expect them to all of a sudden know these things? As my mom told me when I was 19, being 18 does not make you an adult just because the country says you are. It just opens more doors in your life like the right to vote or buying cigarettes. My mom has told me lot of people do not become adults until they reach their twenties because they understand bills and stuff and are more responsible. In fact I have heard that lot of young adults (more common in college people) to spend their money on fun stuff and things they want. They cannot tell the difference between needs and wants. Something they want they think is a need. But then they call their parents and ask them for money because they need it to pay a bill. They are often in debt and owe money because they spent their money on fun stuff and didn't budget. I have a hard time understanding it because I am screaming inside my head "How can they not know" I knew and never been through that stage. If your parents tell you you are paying for your own stuff and they aren't going to buy it for you nor pay your bills, wouldn't you think "Uh oh, I better start saving my money, no more fun stuff because I am on my own. No more buying what I want?" Maybe this is part of lot of people are not logical. My mom tells me that too. She tells me lot of people are not logical nor very smart. I keep thinking if parents would stop bailing their kids out of debt and paying for their rent and stuff, it will get them to start saving their money and budgeting it. They will grow up and take life more seriously.

But I think I am guilty of this too because when I was with my ex, he didn't have a job anymore because his boss fired him. My ex didn't drive so I always took him to work or my parents. But then they went out to Wisconsin for three weeks and my car was in the shop so he wouldn't have a ride to work. So he told his boss he wouldn't be able to work those three weeks and his boss never put him on schedule again. But my boss was okay with me leaving work for five minutes to take my ex to work and then come back and I told my ex that idea but he shot it down when I told him he can come to work with me and wait in the car and he will have music to listen too and play my games. He said he didn't want to be in the car so I told him he can be inside then, they have couches and chairs and he can listen to his music using my headphones and play my games. But he shot down that idea too. He said he'd "look ret*d" in his work uniform. I told him he can wear his normal clothes and then get changed when he comes to work. He shot down that idea too and said he would have no place to put his stuff so I told him he can change right before we leave and he still shot down that idea. He had another excuse for that. That was one of the problems I had with him, blowing me off when I'd help him. I tried to help him keep his job by offering to take him to work with me and have him wait in the car or sit inside in the nice comfy couch or chair with his music or my video games. I offered I would take him to work when it's time but no he didn't like my solutions. So he was fired. So after that, he kept telling me he is going to work at the other McDonalds in town and he is waiting to be transferred. I had no idea at the time he was fired. I just thought his boss didn't put him on schedule. So while he was jobless, I decided to not charge him rent for the next month until he gets a job. But he still wanted to keep spending his money on stuff he wanted than saving it for needs like gas or food until he gets a new job. He did not want to save it for emergencies. I even stopped taking him to places he wanted to go and told him I will only give him rides when it's for him to take his written and driver's test and for when he is applying for work or to go to work. I didn't want him to take advantage of me so I got this tough. He decided he will only go with me when I need to go somewhere.

And another thing, he was offered a job up in Kalispell Montana for $15 an hour but he wanted me to take him to work that be 67 miles away from where we lived. He told me it be cheaper if I take him than him getting his license. He all of a sudden decided he didn't want to get his license to drive his car because "it be cheaper" if i took him. I did not want to get up early and take him to work and then come back and work and then get off work and then come and pick him up. That be three hours of my day. An hour of taking him and then an hour of getting him and bringing him back. Maybe four hours then since I would have to drive back to my job after dropping him off. I just couldn't do it. Who would?
I could not understand how it be cheaper but it took me until I was about 23 to figure it out how he meant it be cheaper. He didn't want to use his money to fill his car up and have less spending money. So he thought he would just give me money for gas so that way he still has his money than having less he had to use to fill up his tank. So he expected me to use my free time and to get up way early before work just to take him to his work using my time. It would have been different if he was driving and then his car was in the shop so he needed a ride. It be temporary. But this was going to be a permanent thing and I didn't want to do it.

I am sure you remember this story. Do you remember me telling you this? I had to go get gas and he needed Mountain Dew. I told him he can just go across the street to the store and he said he didn't want to do that or he might get hit by a drunk driver. I told him there was nothing to worry about because the chances are very slim and there are hardly cards on that street. If he saw a car coming, he'd know it. But he still wanted to not cross the street so I thought "Not a big deal right, I will just dump him off (excuse me, drop, I think dump was the word I used then for that situation) there and then go get gas. Then after I am done, I go across the street and get him and he goes "Oh you meant that street, I thought you meant that street" and he points to the highway. I was flabbergasted because why would I want him to cross the highway and back when the gas station and the store were on the same side of the road? I asked him that and he said I wasn't specific enough. He blamed his mistake on me. Do you remember telling me some people do call the highway a street and it was pride so he couldn't admit his mistake because of his pride? Do you also remember telling me Mountain dew does help people with ADHD because it calms them down?

That incident pissed me off because he was blaming it on me. Maybe if he admitted it was his bad, I would have dropped it and not make a huge deal out of it and not have it treasured in my mind as a "OMG" moment about why he was so bad. I did not think I needed to tell him what street to cross because when someone tells you you can go across the street, you look for the store and you would know what street to cross. The gas station was right across from the store and I told him I was getting gas and he can go across the street to the store as I get it. All it does it takes a brain to look and he would know what street to cross. I think even an autistic person would know what street to cross without being told which street. Like I say, common sense. I realize now he probably didn't know there was a gas station right across from the store and that they were on the same side of the highway. So it was a mistake on his part. He should have gone "Oops my bad, I wasn't thinking. I should have looked before I assumed." But no, he couldn't admit it and blamed it on me. But because we had been to that store five times together, I thought he knew the gas station was across from the store. I assumed. So my bad on my part too. I even tried asking him how he could make that mistake but he got defensive so I called him stupid for his mistake. When I was 22, my therapist told me I shouldn't have done that because calling people stupid just makes it harder for them to admit their mistakes. So maybe I shouldn't have insulted him just because he was pissing me off by not making any sense when I tried to make sense out of why he did that. At first I thought it was one of his jokes but no he was serious.



My parents had knew all along he was a leech and lazy and didn't want to work but I thought they were being judgmental so I didn't listen to them. How would they know? They hardly know him. They were judging him based on his life style at home. He had no job, he didn't drive anymore because his mother was driving it and she hit a deer so his car needed to be fixed so they were saying he was a leech and lazy. I didn't think he was because he told me he is trying to get a job and wants one but no one will call him for an interview and his mother won't take him to apply for work so he is stuck. I then thought I would help him. So he decided on his own to apply for work where I live and his boss hired him fast and he moved in with me. But that didn't last long because he complained about his work and wanted to quit and I told him he can't quit unless he gets another job because finding work is hard and he needs money. He also complained about money too and how "ret*d" it all is to pay to live and eat. But he wouldn't study for his driver's license even though I stopped at the DMV and picked up the Manuel for him. But he didn't study and he said he did but I could tell he never touched it just by looking at it and what spot it was in. Then he lost his job and wouldn't apply for other work and his excuse was I told him I was done taking him to places and I told him I said I would only take him if it's for work or to get his license. But he always twisted my words around and wanted to hear what he wanted to hear. I would tell him things and sometimes he would twist it around. Also when it got too hot out, I didn't like sex because I couldn't tolerate sticky skin and the heat so I told him we couldn't have sex until it cooled down. Bam that was the last time he spent time with me because he was then on his computer and never got off unless it was to eat, or use the bathroom or go to bed. So he was with me all along for sex and when he found out he wouldn't get any, he went right to his computer. He even told me if I need the internet, just let him know and he will get off. I did that and he always complained about having to get off. I even told him I want the internet when I am done with my shower. He would still be on it. So I then thought after a while maybe he is misunderstanding me. So I made it more clear. I told him when I say I want the internet after I am done, I mean I want him to get off and be off the computer and have it be ready for me after I get out. Not have him still be on it and then having to kick him off. He rejected that idea. He thought it was "ret*d." And that word did start to annoy me because he was saying it all the time so it was getting annoying. I finally figured out anything he didn't like was that word. That's what made it annoying. So when I'd be online, he would complain and hassle me to get done so he get back to his game. I tried to give him other ideas like watch his shows on DVD, play video games, listen to his music, draw, but he rejected those ideas and has excuses. But he told me if I needed the internet, just tell him and he will get off so why would he have an attitude about it and then be impatient with me being on it? My husband told me he said that just to get me off his back. Well well well, I took it literal then so his plan backfired. Then after a while, I started to go down to my parents house using their internet. So basically I was paying for his internet and I wasn't even using it anymore. He would even beg for me to have sex too and also expected me to get used to the sticky skin feeling. I should have bought a portable AC and use it in the room for sex but didn't think of it then.

I also remember another time we were going to the movies and I had to rush him to get going because he was taking too long and we had to leave. On the way he told me next time we are going to see a movie, tell him he needs to get ready and let him know ahead of time to get ready so it doesn't cause friction. So the next time we were seeing a movie, I told him what time the movie started and what time we were leaving and I told him when to get ready. But when 3:45 came, I told him the time and to get ready to leave. he didn't get off. Then four o clock came and he still wasn't ready. I grab my things and I had to kick him off his computer and had to rush him and he complained and said that R word again. Then he tells me I was the one who told him we need to be patient with things and not do it NOW. My reaction was "OMG" and told him this is a movie, that's different because movies start at a certain time so we have to leave at a certain time and they are not going to wait for us to get there to start the movie. Seriously, who wouldn't know that slacking off to get ready and taking your time and having everyone wait for you when you are all going to see a movie would make them late?

My ex always wanted to do things NOW. He would get an idea in his head and had to have it done NOW. So he would pester me and hassle me by going "can we go now?" like a little kid so I told him things don't need to be done this urgent and he needs to be patient. I told him he didn't need to fix his coat NOW (he wanted to have it done before we go to this flea market) and I told him we weren't leaving for another two weeks so he doesn't need to have it done now. I decided I would take him to get some thread for his coat in my own time frame but he kept pesterting me until I was melting down so my dad took him instead since he had to go to that town anyway for an appraisal. Did my ex care? No. He still did that crap to me. "can we go now" and being anxious to leave. I figured out a solution to that problem. I thought maybe he needs to know the time frame, needs to know when we are leaving so he won't be anxious so that way he will know when we are leaving and he won't bother me causing me anxiety and annoying me. So I tried that and it didn't work. He still did it. So when I told him about being patient, he twisted it around and used it on movie theaters. We had to leave to see the movie and he was taking too long so I had to nag him again and I was having anxiety while he was having it too so he complained and said it was all the R word. he then decided to tell me I was the one who told me to be patient and there I was not being patient. I was like Oh my god because was he really that stupid? Who would think you can slack off and leave other people waiting to see the movie you're all heading too when it's time to leave? After all they will just not start the movie until you get there so you can be late? Wrong, who would think movie theaters work that way? They don't so I know he twisted my words. He would take my words and twist them around. he did this quite often and it also made me mad. I wasn't sure if he was being literal or a smart ass. I figured smart ass since no one be that dumb possibly. This was one of the examples he did here. I told him next time I am leaving him behind if he does that again when we are going to see a movie.

Another time I got my car fixed. It was done so I came and picked it up and my ex wanted me to write to Social Security and reimburse me. I had to pay $720 for the clutch to be replaced and I told him I wasn't going to be doing any fun stuff nor driving as much because I had to save money again since I had to spend that much to get it fixed. So he wanted to have SSI reimburse me all because he didn't want to sit at home and do nothing because I would refuse to do fun stuff because I had to save like crazy again. But I told him they won't do that and it doesn't work that way. Even my parents told him the same thing and he didn't listen. I even told him I want to be independent so he said he will just move back in with his parents. I asked him why and he said "You want to be independent so that means you don't need me." I told him that it does not mean that and are my parents not independent because they live together or are his parents not independent because they live together. He shut up. I think now he was just twisting my words.

Then when my birthday was coming up, he was going away on a camping trip with his friend. He said he'd be back Sunday. I go okay and was expecting him to be back. But I remember while he was away, i felt very happy inside because my ex wasn't around. I even felt happy at work too and functioned better. My mom even told me she was so happy to see me that happy again and him living with me wasn't good for me because she missed the old me. But Sunday came and he doesn't come home. Not even a phone call. But I don't care because I was happy without him there. But the next day came and he still didn't come home. Then it was my birthday and he didn't come home. I figured he'd be back home later. Mom took me shopping that day in Missoula, MT and she bought me "adult" clothes that made me look grown up than like a child. That was when she told me those things. Then we come home and he still wasn't back so I feel upset he would forget my birthday. My parents take me out to eat and I picked this restaurant but didn't like the food fortunately. But when I got back, guess what? I saw he was back because his stuff was gone, his shower stuff, his computer. I was mad and not only that, he didn't leave a fricken note.

I then decided that was the last straw and my parents were right about him and it took me that long to finally connect the dots. He didn't care about me at all, I was his meal ticket, he was a leech and lazy. I wasn't that important to him so he forgot my birthday. So I kicked him out by telling him I don't think I want him to live with me anymore and he went "okay." He took it so well but later on it turns out he didn't take it well because he was calling himself a screw up and he was saying he screwed up badly. He did come back like a week later for his stuff while I was at work. He even had an excuse for why he didn't call me. he said his friend doesn't want him using his phone nor his cell phone. He even said his friend was having problems so he thought it was important to stay with him. I thought then his friends were more important than me. I also told him it was my birthday and he went "damn" and since he can remember his friend's, he couldn't remember mine so I learned I wasn't that important to him and that he didn't care.

Skip forward to 2010, I hear on the news about how men tend to forget their girlfriend's and wife's birthdays because of a wiring in their brain. I felt like a jerk about my ex because maybe it was a innocent mistake he made. But because he did so much manipulation and mind games with me and always had excuses, how was I going to know he made a mistake? Maybe if he didn't have so many excuses, and was trying to get his license by studying and followed my solutions and worked on his problems, I may have very likely accepted that mistake and forgiven him and let it slide. But because he cried wolf so many times, how was I going to know it was a genuine mistake? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't.


He also had aspie traits, anxiety and some of the stuff I read here reminds me of my ex and I feel like a jerk for it because I may have been ignorant and his issues could have been genuine. Like for one, someone here made a thread about how she can't remember birthdays and other members said they have the same problem too. They cannot remember their siblings birthdays nor their parents. I realized my ex may have had that issue and that issue does exist. But he remembered his friend's and after all he did play lot of mind games and blew me off every time I tried and help him with his problems by giving him solutions so how was I supposed to know?

Then on Babycenter, I see a thread about ADHD and women were talking about their kids and husbands with it and it reminded me of my ex. I realized maybe his laziness may have been his ADHD and maybe he had a hard time getting things started like studying his driver's Manuel or doing things for himself than depending on others but then again all their spouses were doing things to help their ADHD and were working on their problems and all the women were working with their ADHD kids to be better with organization and helping them with their problems. My ex on the other hand didn't want any of it. I did try and help him and he blew me off.

So I always make myself feel better and unjerk when I remind myself of how manipulative he was and how many mind games he played and how he blew me off every time I tried to help him and he always had excuses so how was I supposed to know which of his problems were genuine? He like cried wolf so many times.

Also he did not like people disagreeing with him. We often argued because of it. He had this black and white thinking that he was always right. Nothing could change it and when you didn't agree with him nor shared his view point and opinion, he would argue with you and not shut up until you agreed with him. He would not accept different opinions. So I sometimes would pretend to agree with him just so he shut up. When I would try and change the topic, he saw it as me running away from my problems and not solve it. I remember asking him on the phone what was there to solve, you can't force people to change their opinions and agree with you. He said "You never know" and I told my mom about it and she said "Don't you love those kind of people?" (being sarcastic of course) and I said I hated them. She said that was wrong of him too what he was doing. I also screamed at him when he would do it with me and what do you know, it would shut him up because he hated being yelled at. I even threatened to scream at him if he would do the "can we go now?" crap and he wouldn't bother me again about it. I even told him "If I hear one more word about my car and SSI, I will scream" and he never mentioned it again about writing to them to reimburse me.

In Mozart and the Whale, I feel I can identify myself as Isabelle and her relationship with Donald when they were living together. She was a control freak, so was I, she acted like his mother, I acted like my ex's mother. Isabelle got hurt by Donald, I got hurt by my ex even though we were both control freaks and treated our men like children. I call my old relationship Mozart and the Whale relationship. A term I made up for relationships where one of the partners is a control freak and wants everything her way and treats his or her partner like a child. It doesn't matter if one partner is lazy or not or acts like a child, still a Mozart and the Whale Relationship. But at least Donald is better than my ex. He isn't lazy like he was despite that he has a messy apartment. But Isabelle had a room for him where he could have his mess when they moved in together. It was like a compromise. But at the end the partner gets hurt by their partner whom they were mothering. Part of the Mozart and the Whale relationship.


I could have been one of those women on ASPartners bitching about their AS partner (back then I thought my ex could have had it) but I didn't know about the forum then and by the time I did, I was single again and I took dislike of the forum the first time I saw it. It all reminded me of my ex, lazy jerks and I despised the forum ever since and didn't like how AS was portrayed as my ex. I didn't even think their partners were aspies either. I just thought it was women diagnosing their partners with AS so they'd have an excuse for them being a jerk. I was told by my online friends, even aspie ones too that my ex was a jerk, not aspie. Then after a while I decided he didn't have it and he just had the traits. But if I knew about the forum then, I don't think I still would have joined because it's for NTs only even though a few aspies post there and they seem to have exceptions about it. Just as long as you agree with their view points and not speak against them, they are okay and allowed there. But at the same time that place also frightened me because I was scared what if I was like those aspies too their partners always complain about? But now when I lurk there sometimes when I am bored, I will laugh at the threads because they remind me of me. One of them was "lack of Touch" and "Money money money" and those were so me. The AS wife in Lack of Touch learned that people have sex on average twice a week so she tries and do it twice a week. My husband told me I should take her advice. I am not laughing at the partner's issues, I am laughing because it reminds me of me and feels like I am reading about myself. Not all threads are bad there. But I don't read there often because I don't want to get upset or irritated if I run into any ignorance or any insensitivity on the condition.


I have gotten shot down about my relationship with my ex because I have been called self centered and stuff because of the way he was and how I broke up with him over it and what I was saying about him why I broke up with him. I would tell them because they would ask me why I broke up with him so I would tell them and then get shot down for it. Mom told me it was because it was because those people are like my ex probably so when I talk about him, they feel attacked. I felt so much better knowing it was them with the problem not me. It's probably projection they were doing. They will try and make me feel guilty for breaking up with him by talking about themselves and their issues or telling me I am self centered or saying he could have had this or that wrong with him or why he did things I thought were jerkish, you know making up excuses for what he did without even knowing him. But I haven't had that in a while thank goodness.

Maybe if he hadn't behaved like a child, he wouldn't have been treated like a child?

I know that the saying goes, " relationships are based on trust", but I think respect is just as important. I can't be intimate emotionally or physically with someone I don't respect. It's not the kind of respect that you would have for an authority figure, but that of an equal partner, with characteristics that you admire. No matter what your weaknesses or strengths, everyone brings something to the table that benefits the whole. It sounds to me like he wasn't bringing anything to the table, and wanted you to do all the "heavy lifting". It's difficult to respect that.

He sounds very sheltered and/or spoiled. Did his parents coddle him growing up?

His driving without a license is a stupid thing to do. He will go to jail for that. I have another question. Why did his parents allow him to drive without a license?




It's not that he did not know about gas prices and bills but he just thought they were stupid. I thought you were saying that he was ignorant of the knowledge of these two concepts. I must've misunderstood you. Maybe I read too much into what you said before. I 100% agree with everything you said here. I believe your logic is spot on. To go further with your point the farmers wouldn't even grow any food. No one would program any computer games or even conceive of any of the magic the gathering cards. He would not have any computer games or magic the gathering cards if we went with his logic.

I do want to play devil's advocate. There is work out there that people do that I do not understand the logical purpose of. For example, mowing the lawn. Why do people insist upon having grass in the first place. What value is produced from having a lawn? We grow food so we can eat. We chop down trees and plant new ones to create things like paper. These things are fine. From my point of view, when I mow the lawn I feel like all I'm doing is moving a gigantic boulder back and fourth for 2 hours. I feel like it's a waste of time and money. The oil and the gas in the lawn mower will have to be constantly replaced. The old oil has to be disposed of properly as well. IMHO, it's just busy work and it's costly to our environment as well. We have to chop more trees down to clear more space so we can build these places to dispose of all of this oil.



Wow!! ! Ummmm!! !! Hmmmm!! ! This sounds like communism. Guess what? Communism failed when the Soviet Union collapsed. Your ex needs to read the history books and see how all of this panned out. The soviets tried something like this and their was abject poverty everywhere.


I am on social security as well. The thing is and I have had to realize this myself is that things do have to be done whether you like it or not.



I believe that these things need to be taught to a child when they're young. I believe that is what I am going to do with my child. My child will know about bills, chores and other things. Honestly, I still do have a lot to learn myself about bills and budgeting and if you do not mind may I ask you for some help from time to time?



For the most part, your mother is correct. Again, I will play the devil's advocate. This is an addition to what your mother says. I believe there is a certain belief and value that people who we can say are generally responsible and respectable hold dear is doing more harm than good. I believe this is one of the things that has hurt a whole generation of children. This belief and value is called common sense. Here is the possible reason they may not know. It is because they were not taught and and those around them like their parents assumed common sense and thought this person would have this knowledge. Those who do say that children are being spoiled these days are correct but I believe another reason is that previous generations especially the WW2 generation assume common sense and they assumed common sense in the next generation and the generation after. The things that the older generations knew were not taught to seceding generations and I believe common sense is the reason for certain problems that plague the younger and younger generations. IMHO, I believe common sense is just as bad as a sense of entitlement. Children and even adults need to rotely be taught what they need to know and to be taught to think through things and ask questions and correct beliefs and certain assumptions they may have. My opinion is let's ditch the concept of common sense and innate knowledge. Maybe common sense isn't so common. Let's follow this biblical quote http://bible.cc/proverbs/22-6.htm If you do not mind will you tell your mom some of the things I have said.




Honestly, it is going to have to take something major that happens to him that he has certain faulty assumptions and his way of doing things does not work.





Here are my questions.

`1. How many hours per week was he working?
2. What was the gas price average there?
3. How much of his paycheck went to gas? If it ate a good chunk of his pay check then he is wasting his time working there.
4. What was the miles per gallon of your vehicle at the time vs. his vehicle at the time? Did your vehicle get a higher miles per gallon than his?



Yes I remember all of this. The mountain dew has caffeine in it which is a stimulant. The drugs that are given to those with ADHD have stimulants in them. This is where he does lack some social skills. Honestly, I have had to do research and I have learned to use "I" statements and not use "you" statements and global statements. If this was you and me I would have said "I must've misunderstood what you said but I thought you wanted me to cross over here. After that I would've apologized to you for my misunderstanding. I would've said as well I didn't even know there was gas station on this street as well. I would've said "pardon my ignorance." To reiterate again what I said before in our PM I did not know myself that the correct term was called highway and not street. I always thought that the expressway or the interstate was called the highway. You taught me something that day that I was ignorant about. I had to do some research to correct some more errors like this. I appreciate that.



Please if you do not mind do not assume common sense for anything or anyone no matter how obvious something is to you. The conclusion I have come to is we as human beings all have misconceptions, beliefs, and biases that come from our own experiences. Honestly, a lot of people do not want to admit they are wrong. I will have to admit sometimes it can be difficult for me to admit to being wrong. A lot of times I have been wrong and I have come to conclusions based upon faulty assumptions. It sounds like to me both of you had a break down in communication because of certain assumptions both of you had. I believe people in general need to accept that others do not have the same beliefs, thought processes, and perceptions as they do. Maybe a lot of people have a theory of mind problem. By the way, I would be getting a root beer. I love root beers.




Personally, I think a lot of times he was showing douche bag behavior. Here is a little play on his word ret*d. Personally, I think his douche bag behavior, beliefs, and assumptions were ret*d. If he wants to make a better life for himself he needs to start questioning his own beliefs and assumptions. All of your ideas were excellent ideas. These are my opinions by the way.





I think he was being a smart ass. You're right League_Girl, they will start the movie without you. They will not hold up the movie, make everyone else wait, while they wait for a guy who loves to say the word ret*d anyway. He does not even know the true meaning of the word anyway. If we're going to go by his meaning and usage then his meaning and usage of the word ret*d is ret*d. Again, I'm making a pun.




Wow!! ! Hmmmmm!! I am flabbergasted here. You're correct, social security does not do that. They will not reimburse you for a $720 clutch. All they do is give you a certain monthly amount. That's it. It is very hard to even qualify for that. You have to meet all of their criteria. I would've done some research on this at least before I said anything.



I am very sorry about all of this.



I have major problems remembering dates like birthdays myself.



I have difficulty getting things started and done as well. I have major problems with organizational skills as well. I am attempting to use Google calendar and even then it is not easy for me. From what you say on here it seems like you're a natural at organization. One problem I have is I forget to write things on the calendar. Another problem is I don't estimate time well and I have a hard time managing time.



Yes, Peter and the wolf.



Honestly, you can't force people to change their opinions or force anyone to do what they don't want to do. Actually, that is what is called a tyrant and a bully. This does remind me my wife and food. I've told you about this but I've suggested dividing up some of the food so both of us know who gets what. My wife's under aged brothers stayed over for the weekend and we went over to Costco and bought a pizza with 20 slices. There were four of us. I suggested we divide the pizza up between the four of us and we each get five slices. She became annoyed with me. She said I am annoying her with these suggestions of dividing up the food. She said her family does not do that. She said that each person takes a certain amount and tries to make sure everyone gets a good amount. I'm just paraphrasing here. She said they would consider each others feelings. This is what I did. I did the same thing. I am trying to make sure everyone knows who gets what and they get their fair share. Another thing she asked me is what if some of us do not want all of our share right away or at all. I said you could either save it for later or give it to those you want to share it with. It seems like to me we come to the same conclusions but from different angles. I talked to my psychologist about this and she told me that most people do not think about these things and do not want to think about these things. They observe in their environment of what goes on. I did not know this. From my understand it seems to me for my wife it is instinct and in her sub conscious and for me it is in my conscious thoughts and I reasoned this. I don't want to make my wife do what she does not want to do so I will back off from this and acquiesce my way. What do you think about my reasoning here?



I've been told I am a control freak.



This is why I wanted you to post your story here. You are showing that you had to deal with a jerk yourself. If he does have AS a lot of his jerkness has nothing to do with his AS. You are showing this through your story. I would love for those at aspartners to read this thread but I doubt they will. I wish Lene would post about her ex-bf as well. I wish others would post here about their ex-bf and gf's. With women and sex I wish they would quit playing the no means yes games. With qplan, I wish we could obtain his wife's point of view.



Again, I am sorry about your ex.

I don't know. My ex told me his mother never spent any time with him growing up. Never took him out or spent any time with him so he was always alone. I thought that was sad but my mom thought maybe she did that because he was too much work and she didn't want to deal with it, the way he acts. He even told me none of his relatives want him staying with them when his parents move to Wyoming for a job. My mom said it was because he was too hyper and unwilling to learn so they didn't want him around. I just thought she was being judgmental and making assumptions but when I was with him, I saw that could be the reason why they don't want him around but he was a kid then so hard to say. It's the parents job to try and teach their kids and work with them and teach them skills and coping techniques. Maybe they tried and gave up when they saw he wasn't learning. But I don't know. My mom thinks that what happened but how would she know?

My mom also thought he could have a mental illness where he would get an idea in his head and stick with it, nothing could ever change it no matter how wrong he is. Nothing will change his mind, not even the teachers. My mom suspected maybe they did try and work with him but he was too stuck on his ideas he was unable to learn.

My ex also told me his step father abused him growing up and then one day in high school, he tied him up in bed and told him he wasn't going to take crap from him anymore. His step father left him alone ever since. But I found some of those stories hard to believe like he told me the time his step father held him up off his feet against the wall with one arm. I did not believe it because how can a guy lift up another guy with one hand. So my ex used my vacuum as an example which only weight 50 pounds and held it against the wall and told me try and it see how lighter it feels. I told him it was a 50 lbs vacuum not, 275 lbs.

He also changed his story about when he tied his step father up. He said he was six when he did it than when he was 17 and when I called him out on it, he denied it. Plus I have a hard time believing a six year old can tied up a grown man in bed. Lot of stuff he said I had troubles believing and I thought I was a jerk for that but mom told me "Of course you have a hard time because lot of things he says is BS."


My mother could have been right about my ex's past and I didn't believe her because how would she know? She wasn't even in his life to see it. Maybe it was TOM she was doing otr body language she was reading and I missed all the cues. Maybe if I read cues in the first place, I would not have entered a relationship with him but I didn't judge him. I didn't judge him by him being jobless, wearing a trench coat, having a messy bedroom, no driver's license. He told me his parents do not help him, they will not take him to apply for work or take him to get his license nor pay for his college. So I did try and help him move forward. I took him to places to apply because he wanted to apply. My aspie friend told me he played me a fiddle by doing all that so that explains why he acted so motivated to want to work and then didn't want to work anymore. It's possible it was all genuine because I was told that when people meet, it boosts up their energy level so they do more things and then after a while it wears off so they go back to being their old selves. That's why my mom gave me the 3 to 6 month rule. She told me it takes that long to see the real person you know. It would only take me two months to see the real men I was with in my last two relationships. But I think I was in denial and it was him forgetting my birthday that made me realize "enough."

So maybe his mother did try and help him and didn't even bother because she knew he blow her off too. But she was stuck with him living with her. But her problem you know, not mine.

Also some of his relatives didn't like him and I thought that was sad but I guess I can see why. And right when my brothers met him, they didn't like him either because the vibes they got from him told them he was bad news. But I never got any bad vibes from him. Maybe because I didn't judge him and maybe that is what they mean by aspies don't judge but the problem is it makes us be more prone to entering bad relationships. Luckily he wasn't a violent man but he had violent thoughts and was violent in the past. He told me the time when he was 15, his teacher was talking to him like he was mentally challenged, so he told him to "stop talking to him like a ret*d" and he broke his leg. His parents grounded him for a month. Another time he told me he was at a restaurant and these people were smoking at the next table so he said to them, "Stop smoking in my face" and he flipped over his table at them. He got kicked out. He told me it took everyone five minutes before they started smoking again and he said he knows because he looked through the window.

Mom judged him by his past actions and said he was a violent man and he would start abusing me. But he told me he would never hit a woman because he knew someone who hit a woman because she was beating him and he got arrested for it so he learned from that person's experience to never hit a woman no matter what. I thought it was ridiculous of my mother to judge him for his past actions he did as a kid. It be like someone judging me for my past actions in my childhood. But one time he said he is sick and tired of people judging him and making false assumptions about him he might hack into the computer system one day and have the satellite blow up the whole entire earth. That made me uncomfortable but I thought I was being silly because it was very unlikely it will ever happen but mom told me I wasn't wrong for feeling that way because what he said was unacceptable.


And yes it is hard to treat someone like an adult when they don't act like one. And everyone did tell me I was his meal ticket and he wanted a mother than a girlfriend. He was very dependent on others and wanted everyone to do stuff for him. He wouldn't even fill out his own application for food stamps or medicaid. he never did it when I told him it's something he needs to do on his own. I was not going to do it for him and didn't because I didn't want him to rely on me. I was afraid if I always did stuff for him, he will never do it himself because why should he if I always did it for him? I didn't want that to happen so I didn't do it for him. It did feel like I had a child, someone I had to nag because parents to have to nag their kids to do stuff. I hated that in my relationship and shouldn't have to nag. But then again I started to wonder if it was the ADHD because he was maybe so disorganized in his mind he couldn't get that started and it does say people with ADHD fail to finish projects and fail to get stuff started. Maybe that was the case? But then again how was I supposed to know if he always cried wolf? hard to tell what problem is genuine and what isn't. But even people with ADHD don't act like he did because they do try and do it, work hard. They try and help themselves. My dad gets stuff done all the time and he is ADHD. Sure he forgets but reminding him doesn't hurt. He still gets it done and in fact when I remind him, he goes "Oh I will do it right now." That's a good attitude to have.

And my ex didn't think he had any problems and thought he had everything under control.

I just had a strange thought. What if he is the victim of sexual abuse?

http://www.sandf.org/articles/Signs.asp

I have no idea. I did not realize you could go to jail for it, I thought you'd get a big fine. But his mother was telling him he needed to get his license so he can drive his car again.




No, you're right. I did say he was ignorant so you didn't misunderstand. But if it was not about ignorance and it was about him not liking them, okay. I guess there is a difference between ignorance and not liking something and ignorance is often misused also. There was once a thread about it at Babycenter. I realized I was one of those people who possibly misuses the word. Also when he wasn't working anymore, he still wanted to spend his money than saving it. I thought that was ignorant. It was also his views he had about life and how things should be and I thought it was ignorant which I had already explained. He just didn't want to spend money and didn't want to work so that was why he wanted things to be free but he was ignorant because did he realize what our country be like if everything was free? I would expect that from a child but not from an adult because they should know better. I also wished everything was free when I was a child. Why? Because I wanted stuff, I hated the "too much money" my mom would say and her always saying no to things I wanted. So I wished everything was free so I'd get what I want and I thought what if everything was free but everyone was required to work. What I told my ex, my mom told me the same thing when I was a kid. But I was a kid then so I didn't know any better. I am sure lot of kids wish everything be free because they want stuff and don't like hearing the word no. So it frustrated me he would even think this at age 20. That's why I said he was ignorant because didn't he understand what the consequences be if everything was free?





I wouldn't mind but I can't gaurentee I will always have advice.





This is what my mother tells me as well. She tells me they were not taught as children. Not everyone had parents who were smart as mine and not all parents have their kids do chores or teach them stuff in their childhood. This may have been the case with my ex. He did say his mother never spent time with him and always ignored him so she was always by himself. I keep thinking all parents teach their kids things because mine did but I keep forgetting not all kids have parents who made them do chores or learn things like money or have a talk with them about their future and what be expected of them. I will be telling my son when he is grown up, he will be responsible for his bills and I am not going to be paying his rent or bills so if he quits his job before getting another one I am not helping him. When he goes off to college and needs money, I am not giving it to him because he needs to save it and manage it, not blow it off on stuff he wants and I will tell him what a want is and what is a need. I want my son to know these things so he knows ahead of time and won't make a mistake of quitting his job and assuming mommy will cover for him. But however, if he got laid off let's say and he had to find another job, of course I will cover him until he gets a new job but if I found out he hadn't been looking and he had been slacking off and having fun because I was paying his rent and all, I would be very hurt and upset and never help him again and I will make sure I tell him that too so he knows. But if he had a history of being dishonest and lying to me and trying to take advantage, I will not help him. But hopefully my son will grow up to be a decent man and honest. Not take advantage of me or lie to live for free or to keep having me buy stuff for him.

Mom also had the talk with me about what would happen if I got pregnant and had a child. I was still in high school then and she told me what would happen and what be expected. I would do the same with my son if he was a girl. But I would still have a talk with him about sex and the consequences so he won't get a girl pregnant when he isn't planning on it. I will also tell him when he has a child, he is responsible for that baby because he helped made it. He cannot walk away from it or else it make him a jerk and a dead beat father and I'd be very upset with him if he did that and very disappointed. Use condoms or don't have sex. I don't care if the girlfriend says she can't have kids nor isn't on birth control, use condoms for safety and just in case she is lying. But I was told at Babycenter lot of teens are not this smart even when the parents have given them the talk. They are not this logical.

This is something I do not get. How hard is it to understand that? I also read that lot of teens do not understand the consequences of their actions such as getting pregnant and having a baby. But I knew in my teens because mom gave me the talk and what would happen if I got pregnant. She told me I would have to quit school to get a job to support my baby, she is not going to help me, she is not going to support my baby, I will be on my own buying him food and everything he needs, she won't buy it for me. She also said she is not watching my baby for free and will not quit her job for it. I would have to get a baby sitter. So that is what stopped me from pregnancy because I didn't want that life. She even told me my childhood is over once you have a baby. You have to be an adult now. So I fail to see how can a teen not grasp this. I grasped it. Lot of people say I am so logical.





He was working five hours a day five days a week at McDonalds.

I do not know how much of his paycheck went to gas.

He said his gas burned a gallon every thirty minutes because his car was once a police car and they took all the stuff out of it and made it a regular car when they sold it. Mine is 30 miles a gallon and he said his was 30 minutes a gallon. He said that's how police cars worked. But honestly the police cars I have seen are the same kind of car brands we use but they have them converted into police cars. Or are they special made? Is their gas mileage really different than ours?





They say it's the black and white thinking where they think they are right and can't admit they are wrong. They say aspies do that but I have seen the same in NTs too. They also do that too so I guess they are also black and white too. Everyone thinks they are right, lot of people cannot admit they are wrong. They want to be right. I do not know the difference between aspies and NTs doing black and white thinking. To me it's both the same. I also think NTs lack theory of mind too and am trying to figure out what is the difference between aspies and NTs lacking it. When I lack theory of mind, I do not know if it was the AS or just a human thing that did it. I remember cockneyrebel saying NTs lack aspie theory of mind. Maybe it's normal to lack theory of mind when it comes to different brain wiring. TOM only works when it comes to other people with the same brain wiring but is someone is autistic, or ADHD, learning disabled, Bipolar, etc. they lack the TOM for it so maybe that is considered normal but if you lack TOM for NTs, it's not normal so they say it's the autism. But then again they are doing that to us we do to them. They lack it and we lack it because of different brain wiring. They have made it be part of autism even though everyone lacks it. This is just my speculation here about TOM for aspies and NTs.





Another example of him being ignorant but I wasn't that peeved because lot of people are ignorant about Social Security. I was only peeved when he kept telling to to write to them to reimburse me after I have explained to him why I can't and that it doesn't work that way. I just think he did that because he wanted to have fun and didn't want to sit at home doing nothing because I had to save my money like crazy again after having to spend it on my car. I was even working my butt off and trying to get in extra hours to earn more money. Even my boss was keeping me late by having me to other work to put in more hours and telling the other workers to save the linen for me to fold because I need the hours to get my car fixed. This was while it was in the shop and I knew it be expensive and was told the cost. I even cashed my whole work check to pay for my car because my car took up my whole paycheck and more than half of the other. That is like my whole monthly income. I did not make that much money in Montana. Only six something an hour. The most I have ever gotten on one paycheck was over 400 dollars but that was rare. In fact I think both my paychecks didn't even cover for my car so part of my SSI money covered for it too and luckily my dad paid for a little bit of it but not even a 100 bucks. And my ex wanted them to reimburse me so I wouldn't have to save money again. When I save money, I do not do anything, no fun stuff, no buying what I want. That's how extreme I get about money. My ex didn't like it so he wanted me to get reimbursed. It was all about him and how it would have effected him.



He blew that off as well when I tried giving him that sort of solution. I bought him a note pad so he'd write stuff down so he wouldn't forget and have to do it NOW. He said he had to do things now or else he forgets. I told him I would remind him and he still wouldn't accept that. he even said he can't write stuff down because he will forget anyway. I told him it still be there for him to see it so he remembers. But yet when I would remind him to do stuff, he always complained because I was nagging him. He said it was you know ret*d.

Maybe it was a genuine issue he had but he wanted an excuse and didn't like I was taking them away from him, I would rather be nagged to get things done if I kept forgetting and decide oh I better do it now so I won't forget and to get my girlfriend off my back. I also need reminders and feel like a jerk when i forget. My husband once told me to return the costume for him. I had to do it for him because he had no way of doing it himself. I totally forgot all about it. he called me on the phone and asked if I didn't and you know what I didn't do it. I told him I forgot all about it and would do it now. I didn't think I'd make it home in time for the bus so I got ready for work and made my lunch and left in my work uniform and dropped it off. But what do you know, it didn't take that long so I went back home after that. My husband didn't nag me, he called to make sure I did it and I forgot so I did it NOW since it had to be done that day or else we would pay an extra charge for the costume for not returning it. Also the fact I had to leave for work in less than an hour. That was why I wore my work uniform because I didn't know how long it take so I brought my lunch and everything so I could drive to work. But no my ex would have slacked off if I reminded him to do things rather I asked him or not. Still wouldn't do it but maybe it was the ADHD and I mistook it as him being lazy and wanting me to do it for him. I had the conception that being organized means being clean and neat and keeping your desk clean and your bedroom. I thought being disorganized meant not being neat and that you were messy. You have your toys scattered all over, not have them put away where they belong and you lose things.

But he still blew me off because he said it was ret*d that I was nagging him to do it now so he won't forget such as putting his bowl in the sink or picking up his garbage.

But I have seen posts here by members where they say being nagged stressed them out and slows them down even more. But to me that is just rude behavior if they don't do it now and if they don't want to be nagged, so it now just to shut them up. They say they don't do it when nagged but to me you can't win. You either nag them and they won't do it because you are nagging them but they still won't do it if you don't nag them. Which is it? I always hate these double edge things or double standards whatever they are called. I hate this. I hate it when you can't win. I hate it when people do this. Hate it hate it hate it.

I prefer to be nagged so I remember to do it because I tend to forget. Even telling someone once or a few times is seen as nagging by some people but to me nagging is where you tell them over and over to do it you finally can't wait anymore. But in this context when I said I prefer to be nagged, I meant I want to be reminded rather it's asking if I have done it yet or when I am going to do it, even if I am not being told over and over by that person to do it. It's only a few times like every few days or later in the day after being told once earlier. I need the nagging. I do not understand why this would bother some people. I do not understand why having to "nag" someone is a problem. What's wrong with reminding someone? My office clerk sure had a problem with having to remind me to do stuff. I wrote them down but often forgot because it would never occur to me to look at my note pad because I would forget I wrote it down so I needed him to remind me. Do people not need a reminder in general? Do lot of people not forget to look at their notepads? I need to be reminded and I do it now so I won't forget. I do not think that is being black and white as one of my bosses there said it was. Plus I always think I need to do it now when people tell me or ask me to do stuff. I always think they mean NOW.




I don't know. You tried to think of others and tried to avoid eating too much and upsetting your wife so you came up with that solution I told you about. But if she doesn't accept that solution, she can't get mad at you for eating too much just because she didn't like the idea of splitting food. You're in a situation there you can't win. She won't take that solution but yet gets mad at you for not knowing how much to leave for her. Which is it? She has to pick. Either have the food get eaten up by you or have you split the food so she gets the chance to have the food. But if she won't cooperate, it's not your problem, she is the problem, not you. I also think she needs to work on some stuff too like seeing things a new way such as seeing that you do think of her or else you wouldn't have told her that solution or be asking her how much you should leave for her and that she needs to be more specific. She should also help you figure out how much food to take when there is company over and there is a buffet of food. I remember telling you my own policy I do, take about three pieces and leave the rest and wait until everyone else has gotten food. Then go back for more. That way you done take a whole plate of carrots. Or just watch how much people put on their plates and copy them so that way you don't take too much.



As have I.




Actually I did mean no. Not yes. I hope I misunderstood you there because I hope you weren't saying that's what I was doing. If you meant women in general only, I apologize.

Lot of it didn't sound like him. And also just because someone may have one or a few of those doesn't mean they were sexually abused.

I have met some of the above too and I was never sexually abused.

WOOOOW!

First off, League_Girl, your mom has pretty good judgment. But I'm guessing you know that. Good woman!

Next, yep, your ex was manipulative, lazy, and a serious PITA. It doesn't matter if he had ADHD or not. What you describe goes so far outside the bounds of everyone I've known with ADHD, I wouldn't attribute his behavior to it. The question is irrelevant. Don't second-guess yourself or your decision to dump him. He was messing with you big time.

Next, misunderstandings do happen in relationships. One of my favorites my wife and I had was when we thought we had a bad phone connection. I answered, said, "Hello?" She said, "Hello?" I thought I could hear her and she couldn't hear me, so I asked again, "Hello?" We went back and forth like this until one of us hung up and then called back. After about three calls we were shouting at each other, "HELLO!!?!?!?! !" Not once did it occur to either of us to ask, "Can you hear me?" That one caused friction for a couple of days, but eventually it became funny. We still laugh about it. But we sure weren't laughing then! It was an innocent misunderstanding with neither of us to blame.

Contrast this to what you said about him wanting a Mountain Dew (which, I agree, is caffeinated like nuts! Root beer rocks.) He was screwing with you the whole time. I doubt very much he ever thought you wanted him to walk across a highway. What he wanted was to be driven around in a limo by his chauffeur. That's not an innocent misunderstanding. That was him screwing with you.

As for people saying you're a control freak, I haven't seen anything you said that indicated that. You weren't trying to control him from what I saw. You wanted him to be more in control of himself. There's a difference. Telling someone they need to fill out their own paperwork isn't being a control freak. It's being responsible. This isn't to say everyone needs to operate as an independent unit, either. My wife does our taxes. I can, but I'm bad at it. The cost of being wrong is too high, so she does them and does them well. But that also means I'm cooking dinner and doing the dishes for about a week around tax time. Fair's fair.

Here's something to keep in mind when it comes to relationships. ANY relationship: The people involved must be compatible or it won't work. Your ex needs someone to coddle him. There really are people like that out there. Good luck to him finding one of them. And good luck to the both of them once it happens. Put that out of your mind. From what you've said that's not someone you're compatible with. End of story. Don't emotionally beat yourself up second-guessing the roots of his behavior. Whatever the reason, he's incompatible with you. Done.

Me, personally, I gravitate toward a person who holds their own, who thinks on their own two feet, and who I know beyond a shadow of a doubt would do just fine without me. Then I know my relationship with them is based on mutual respect, and a real desire to be there. Not a need to get gas money. As you put it, I don't ever want to be someone's meal ticket. Ever. Nor do I want them to be mine. But that's me. Other people are different.

It takes real dedication from both people in order to have a solid relationship. If neither is willing to fight to make things work, it's doomed to fail from the get-go. If only one is willing to fight to make things work, that can't last long, either. Both people have to be willing to drop what they're doing, sacrifice if need be, but by golly be ready to go back to back with their partner and fight for that relationship with everything they've got. It sounds like you put up more than your fair share of fighting to make that relationship work. It doesn't sound like he was willing to work for it at all. Seriously, don't second-guess yourself. You made the right call.


cubedemon6073, I find this really interesting:

I'd roll that forward a generation. I think the generation who went through WWII didn't assume common sense was all that common. I also think they had a firm grasp on the idea that nothing comes for free. I agree with you, though, that more recent generations have lost touch with both these ideas. This is one of the reasons the reactions to the recession we're in bother me so much. People throw up their hands and say, "But we can't let this happen! We have to keep spending!" ??! Have they forgotten that in 1940 people had been in a depression for several decades, and that most people got their food using ration stamps? The sense that generation developed wasn't common. It was driven by necessity. You learned fast or you fell through the cracks. Post-WWII the US was one of the few industrialized countries with an intact manufacturing infrastructure, and the entire world was a market who needed to rebuild their infrastructure as quickly as possible. Jobs were plentiful, paychecks started to grow, and people felt good to be alive without the fear of war hanging over them. They splurged. They bought stuff. Their kids got stuff without ever seeing the hardship that came before. Sure they heard it in stories their parents or their grandparents told, but they never saw it first-hand. If their car blew a tire, no big deal. Get another tire. During WWII if your car blew a tire, you might wait a year or two before you could get a retread, if you ever did at all. I think that's where the idea took root.

This is a fantastic thread, by the way. You're not asking questions that have simple answers. Maybe that is why people refuse to answer them? They take a lot of thought, and there's no one right answer to any of them.

Thank you viewupthere. I have told my mother she and dad were right all along and I was wrong. I was blind to everything and it took for him to miss my birthday for me to realize what was up and that I had to end it. I don't care if it was an innocent mistake, it sure gave me a wake up call to dump him.

Even my husband has said the same thing that he was playing head games with me. I also knew after the break up he wanted me to be his limo driver because he would not get his license. I am my husband's limo driver but he does so much. He works full time to support us, he takes care of himself, he cooks me dinner sometimes, he takes care of our son while I am at work, so I take him to places so he wouldn't have to take the bus and we go grocery shopping together. My ex did a little like take care of my dog when I be at work or giving her her medicine. He even wanted to take me out to eat but I wanted him to save his money since he wasn't working.

But everyone sure knew about him before I did. My guess is it's cues they've read that I missed. My parents tried to tell me and I didn't listen. My parents were helping me by taking him to work and back and then they gave up and mom started telling my dad to stop because it was too much for them and taking up their time and mom decided to just have me figure it out myself. She was also worried about me all along but couldn't do a thing about it. She was worried I would stay with him and not ever give up and was worried I would be stuck with him because his parents were moving. She also said he would have destroyed me. Then she was happy I got smart and I said to her "no mom you can't change people unless they want to change." So it was a good thing for my mother to quit helping my ex. It put more stress on me and made my depression worse and effected my daily functioning at work and I decided enough when he forgot my birthday.

But there were things I did in that relationship as well I figured I could have done different nor shouldn't have done but you know what, I take that as it means I won't do it in the future nor now.

League_girl, you just reminded me of something inadvertently. I have to go fax something for my wife. I totally forgot about it. I am such a stupid head. Let me go do it right now.

Forgetting doesn't make anyone stupid.

I forget things all the time even with notes. I need someone to remind me sometimes. It was something in your post that reminded me that I had to go to Fed-Ex kinkos to fax this thing. I have the same attitude and that is let me go take care of it right now.