Link for rational enlightened thinking

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Of course things are somewhat different, however, that hardly changes anything in terms of what kind of system we want or need as we don't want a market because it makes stuff, we want a market because it changes and adapts with great ease due to the freedoms that individuals have in such a system. Energy accounting hardly takes everything into account anyway, as not all joules expended are really equal and as such we need a currency to account for such differences. If we make these changes then we will not have a better society at all, as the economy will stop functioning as well due to the necessity of property rights based systems for economic incentives for individuals as well, autonomous communes would be a bad way to organize things anyway as it would make for a harder time to handle things best dealt with by larger groups such as defense, and given the controlling nature of the system we will have problems with trade.

Because of the fact that we have to account for the trade-offs of individuals so that work is rewarded as it should be, and to do such requires that individuals receive property differently based upon the needs of the system which are the needs of their fellow man. A technocratic system will never work as well as a market system given that it lacks the tendency towards economic equilibrium where individuals make their own trade-offs to get what they think is important to do what they feel is in their best interests.

There would not be any control or prevention of barter or even prevention of alternative currencies. But the technate will produce things to a lower cost without any recognition to copyright, thus rendering all abundant products so cheap so that no one could make any profit on them. Moreover, there would be a two-way communication system between consumer and the producing mechanism [through an internet], which I have already mentioned.

The technate would handle all large-scale technical issues. The social issues would be taken care of by the communes, or the individual. *A nonchalant smile*

Money has nothing to do with bureauracy, what I am talking about are fire fighters, mail delivery, ploice servces, court adminisration, tranportation, and a variety of other bureaucratic necessities...am I to believe machince will do all of these functions as well as grow, and harvest crops, manufacture goods, distribute these goods all without any basis for exchange?

Yes, we will automatise everything that is possible to automatise, even the so-called public sector. And those works which would be left would ot be bureaucratic jobs, but rather technical jobs. Bureaucracy is taken care of by digital means, transparent, open and constantly compared to alternative schemes for the smae goal.

How would a bulky package be delivered? Whow would a bar fight be broken up? Would all civic and religious institutions be gone? Marriage? Divorce? Adoption?

Civic treaties will be abolished, but not for those who entered them during the time before the technate was established. People should still be able to marry, but it will not have any legal rules or regulations.

A bar fight would be broken by those who wanted to maintain the bar. BTW, a bar fight is a social, not a technical issue.

A bulky package will be delivered to the depot. Then you can transport it yourself.

Last edited by Therion on 15 Sep 2006, 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

How are crime and criminal dealt with...I assume the unjust taking of another's life would still be considered a crime? What about thievery?

A criminal is stopping other people's access to consumption, and therefore put under a time-limited isolation and rehabilitation programme. But that is really to be determined socially, not technically [death penalty, torture or such things won't be accepted though]. But we leave that for now. I am more inclined to discuss how anyone could be so arrogant to think that abstract concepts actually exists on their own.

How would a technocracy service the need of a geographically isolated locale such as an island with limied natural resources of its own? Odd that you don't address the issue of murder...Asto abstract concepts existiong on thier own, perhap it is just that what separates man from the other animals; the grasp of the abstract notion.

We do not take any moral stance about human life. Technocracy is just about administrating resources and distribution, not about forging abstract concepts about morality. And isolated island would be a part of a much bigger continental technate, if it choses so.

Abstract concepts are just ways to try to motivate ourselves to live in a very advanced society without disrupting the process all too much, and too prevent people from doing socially unacceptable behavior. In the middle ages it was religion, today it is ethics. Those abstract concepts manifests themselves in our laws, but they are valueless, because if their implementation is not upheld with the use of pain distribution today, they would be ignored, and instead, we would make a retreat to the tribal justice system employed before [which also is present in herd-living animal communities]. Abstract concepts are just reasoning around the basic fact that to have an advanced society where some are rich and some are poor, we must have rules which people would need to treat as they were real, physical facts.

I do not believe in morale as something independent from human society and applicable on all places, times and circumstances.

Thankfully, some of us do.

You are free to believe in Santa Claus as well

Likewise for the belief that a technocracy is desirable. If you start one and there is nothing coercive about it, while not a place I would choose to live, I harbor no ill will tho those who do. I chose as the the Founder of my country wrote, to "believe these truths to be self evident..."

This just shows how much you live in a world of theory and lack experience. Automation does'nt REDUCE a persons workload, it helps a worker produce MORE WORK. Wants and needs are efectively unlimited so scarcity will ALWAYS exist. Capitalists are keen to keep thier workers buried in work. That way we don't have the time or energy to conspire against them...

You are right, except for that of abundance. But we are talking about adapting our system to the physical capacity, not to adapt the physical capacity to our system.

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