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Bizarre Accusation by a WP Moderator

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spongy
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04 Nov 2011, 7:14 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Nexus wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Nexus wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
OneStepBeyond wrote:
while we're jabbering, can you guys read our PMs?

no, moderators cannot.


But admins can, there was a huge scandal back in 2006 about that.

and?


Just saying that it can and has been done in the past.

do you think it is still a problem or are you reminiscing about the good old days?

I read about what happened elsewhere(with a proper explanation as to why it happened...)and all I can say is that wp tos made it clear that it could happen:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/tos.txt
WrongPlanet.net has a private messaging feature. Messages passed between users should not be
read by anyone other than the sender and the recipient.(The use of should means that it doesnt always happen that way).
So this members should have been more carefull about what they were sending each other here because by creating an account you agree with the tos(that box most people dont read).

AFAIK it was an issue regarding another forum that had just been created and it stopped happening ages ago.


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Nexus
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04 Nov 2011, 7:31 am

hyperlexian wrote:
Nexus wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Nexus wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
OneStepBeyond wrote:
while we're jabbering, can you guys read our PMs?

no, moderators cannot.


But admins can, there was a huge scandal back in 2006 about that.

and?


Just saying that it can and has been done in the past.

do you think it is still a problem or are you reminiscing about the good old days?


I would say and hope it's no longer an issue. I was only answering the user's original question about whenever or not people's PMs can be read by those who manage WP. The answer is yes, with back-end tools it can be done by admins and actually has been done in the past. Technically this ability to do so is true for any message board as I doubt PM data is encrypted and would be stored in a separate database as plain text.

Also it's technically allowed and considered merely a guideline not to in the way the ToS is written, as Spongy pointed out.


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Moog
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04 Nov 2011, 7:41 am

The mods here cannot read your PMs, passwords, or thoughts (except for hyper, I think she might be telepathic)


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blue_bean
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04 Nov 2011, 7:59 am

spongy wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Nexus wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
Nexus wrote:
hyperlexian wrote:
OneStepBeyond wrote:
while we're jabbering, can you guys read our PMs?

no, moderators cannot.


But admins can, there was a huge scandal back in 2006 about that.

and?


Just saying that it can and has been done in the past.

do you think it is still a problem or are you reminiscing about the good old days?

I read about what happened elsewhere(with a proper explanation as to why it happened...)and all I can say is that wp tos made it clear that it could happen:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/tos.txt
WrongPlanet.net has a private messaging feature. Messages passed between users should not be
read by anyone other than the sender and the recipient.(The use of should means that it doesnt always happen that way).
So this members should have been more carefull about what they were sending each other here because by creating an account you agree with the tos(that box most people dont read).

AFAIK it was an issue regarding another forum that had just been created and it stopped happening ages ago.


That bit in the TOS wasn't there when it all happened though, it wasn't put there till after.



hyperlexian
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04 Nov 2011, 8:16 am

Moog wrote:
The mods here cannot read your PMs, passwords, or thoughts (except for hyper, I think she might be telepathic)

shhhhhhhhh. you aren't supposed to talk about that. i need some kind of 2-way communication to change your thoughts instead of just reading them, so that you will stop giving away my secret powers. :twisted:


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sliqua-jcooter
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04 Nov 2011, 10:09 am

I'm a bit late to the conversation, but since it was brought up - I can confirm that it is possible to tell whether passwords for two accounts are the same, given access to the database (which I believe the only people that have access would be myself, engineers at Sliqua, and Alex) but there is no way to tell what the actual password is in plaintext.

Geeky explination to follow:

Passwords aren't stored in "plain text" in the database. The passwords are hashed using one-way encryption, meaning that once the password is encrypted, it can't be decrypted again (without a fair amount of computational complexity involved, which is beyond the scope of this discussion).

When you log into the site, there's code that takes the password you input, encrypts it the same way the saved password was encrypted, and then compares the results. If they're the same, you're good to go, if not - well, you're not good to go.

So, in summary - if you have access to the encrypted passwords (which I'm almost positive the mods don't have) you can compare them to other encrypted passwords, but you don't ever actually know what the password actually is.



OneStepBeyond
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04 Nov 2011, 11:51 am

now i wanna know about the Great PM scandal of '06....



Nexus
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04 Nov 2011, 12:17 pm

OneStepBeyond wrote:
now i wanna know about the Great PM scandal of '06....


Here's a thread on here containing some of the details: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt11563.html

Long read. Page 2, vetivert's post should be read especially.


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League_Girl
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04 Nov 2011, 11:12 pm

Sounds like a misunderstanding. So one of the mods asked wefunction about the other account and how it matches her IP from her account and she took that as an accusation?

I didn't see the PM so I don't know if it was said a certain way that sounded nasty like an accusation or sounded civil and it came off as a curious question.



alex
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04 Nov 2011, 11:58 pm

Yes. The passwords are encrypted in a way that makes it impossible for anyone to access them, including developers and admins. Rest assured that your passwords are completely secure.

sliqua-jcooter wrote:
I'm a bit late to the conversation, but since it was brought up - I can confirm that it is possible to tell whether passwords for two accounts are the same, given access to the database (which I believe the only people that have access would be myself, engineers at Sliqua, and Alex) but there is no way to tell what the actual password is in plaintext.

Geeky explination to follow:

Passwords aren't stored in "plain text" in the database. The passwords are hashed using one-way encryption, meaning that once the password is encrypted, it can't be decrypted again (without a fair amount of computational complexity involved, which is beyond the scope of this discussion).

When you log into the site, there's code that takes the password you input, encrypts it the same way the saved password was encrypted, and then compares the results. If they're the same, you're good to go, if not - well, you're not good to go.

So, in summary - if you have access to the encrypted passwords (which I'm almost positive the mods don't have) you can compare them to other encrypted passwords, but you don't ever actually know what the password actually is.


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Booyakasha
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05 Nov 2011, 2:07 am

League_Girl wrote:
Sounds like a misunderstanding. So one of the mods asked wefunction about the other account and how it matches her IP from her account and she took that as an accusation?

I didn't see the PM so I don't know if it was said a certain way that sounded nasty like an accusation or sounded civil and it came off as a curious question.


I don't think that Hyper would ever misuse her modding powers and "accuse" anyone in a nasty manner. Such check-ups are done on a regular basis; however the usual response from the members isn't so heated. Some people just seem to be thriving on drama.



iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2011, 11:27 am

It was probably that it registered that you both had used the same IP address, which is a usual ploy of novice trolls. However, the same IP addresses can also be used by family members or, in your case, visiting friends who you set up an account for. It shows the same results in terms of IP address which probably led to confusion especially with the second more recent post in your friend's name.



spongy
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08 Nov 2011, 12:12 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
It was probably that it registered that you both had used the same IP address, which is a usual ploy of novice trolls. However, the same IP addresses can also be used by family members or, in your case, visiting friends who you set up an account for. It shows the same results in terms of IP address which probably led to confusion especially with the second more recent post in your friend's name.

As I explained on her first time posting this at the haven we do understand that there may be some special situations and you can try to explain things to a mod if you are contacted(which is what most people do), not sure why wefunction went down this road instead of explaining things to hyperlexian.


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iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2011, 4:26 pm

spongy wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
It was probably that it registered that you both had used the same IP address, which is a usual ploy of novice trolls. However, the same IP addresses can also be used by family members or, in your case, visiting friends who you set up an account for. It shows the same results in terms of IP address which probably led to confusion especially with the second more recent post in your friend's name.

As I explained on her first time posting this at the haven we do understand that there may be some special situations and you can try to explain things to a mod if you are contacted(which is what most people do), not sure why wefunction went down this road instead of explaining things to hyperlexian.


I don't know the internal motives of other people with any certainty either, however it is often the case that people like to speak publicly rather than privately, and others vice versa, as a matter of preference rather than as a matter of hostility or whatever else may be assumed. In public debate the issue is open for public debate, such as the OP feeling as though they had been accused. Responding to a person who you feel is accusing you privately would feel as though you are merely playing into their game. I do not make any statement regarding the actual situation but am merely addressing possible perceptions. I'm sure the OP could provide their actual perceptions and the person they perceived to have wronged them could also provide their own perceptions, and thus find out the real perceptions of each rather than the mere possibilities of which there may be an infinite number of possibilities some more or less probable than others. Anyhow, this is a public discussion until somebody of the moderation team locks it for whatever reason.



hyperlexian
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08 Nov 2011, 5:08 pm

iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I'm sure the OP could provide their actual perceptions and the person they perceived to have wronged them could also provide their own perceptions, and thus find out the real perceptions of each rather than the mere possibilities of which there may be an infinite number of possibilities some more or less probable than others. Anyhow, this is a public discussion until somebody of the moderation team locks it for whatever reason.

actually, no. i really can't do that (as bolded). i can't defend myself with details because if i post the PM i sent to her it would violate the Rules of WrongPlanet. additionally, i have integrity and won't violate her privacy and post my reasons for the PM. further, i am not interested in defaming a member of WP no matter what she says about me. she has the option of coming back and posting it herself asi gave permission, but personally i don't play like that.

members are pretty much free to believe what they want based on half of the story. that's the life of a mod :shrug: so far, the other mods are not requesting my removal, and Alex hasn't reprimanded me or removed my badge, so that speaks volumes.

i think locking the thread (even though it technically started off as a personal attack) is not a good idea. since i believe i have not done anything wrong, there is no reason i would want to discourage people from seeing this thread.

EDIT: fixed a typo. ok 2, or maybe 3. ;)


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Last edited by hyperlexian on 08 Nov 2011, 5:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

iamnotaparakeet
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08 Nov 2011, 5:12 pm

hyperlexian wrote:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
I'm sure the OP could provide their actual perceptions and the person they perceived to have wronged them could also provide their own perceptions, and thus find out the real perceptions of each rather than the mere possibilities of which there may be an infinite number of possibilities some more or less probable than others. Anyhow, this is a public discussion until somebody of the moderation team locks it for whatever reason.


actually, no. i really can't do that (as bolded). i can't defend myself lwith details because if i post the PM i sent to her it would violate the Rules of WrongPlanet. additionally, i have integrity and won't violate her privacy and post my reasons for the PM. further, i am not interested in defaming a member of WP no matter what she says about me. she has the option of coming back and posting it herself asi gave permission, but personally i don't play like that.

members are pretty much free to believe what they want based on half of the story. that's the life of a mod :shrug: so far, the other mods are not requesting my removal, and Alex hasn't reprimanded me or removed my badge, so that speaks volumes.

i think locking the thread (even though it technically started off as a personal attack) is not a good idea. since i believe i have not done anything wrong, there is ano reason i would want to discourage people from seeing this thread.


Well, those are good reasons for behaving better. However, one need not bring the contents of PMs to share their perceptions about them in nebulous terminology. It is better not to though.