email to President Bush

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seriously though, bush and saddam should go on trial side by side as the CRIMINALS thay are

I don't think Bush is dumb...honestly...I think he wants us to think that he is dumb...Or not quite 'dumb' per say, but 'average joe'...To me, he looks like a rich, well educated guy trying to act as average joe, and doing a crappy job of it.

As for the remark that Osama is dodging bullets in Afghanistan...No, that's not quite correct: see, he is currently in the white house right now, he has tea with Bush every so often. Bush can't thank him enough for keeping him in office

Bad therory? Well...I just don't believe that the greatest (or near greatest) army in the world cannot find some guy hiding out in a cave in Afghanistan! (and or Pakistan)...

And besides...Osama Bin Laden is to Bush as the Devil is to Christianity...

You liberals are suffering from the same insanity I suffered when Clinton was in office, with the accusations of murdering vince foster, whitewater, and so on. In a few years you will lose your illusions as the hatred that blinds you subsides. I speak from experience, not with a scornful tongue.

I must profess that no war is inherently legal or illegal. Apparently no one has been reading their John Locke, Hobbes, or any other philosohpers. We are savages tempered by our own minds, by conditioning, by instilling virtue in the young, and punishing the wicked. We are very simple creatures who, through our limitless ambitions, seek the world and its riches. We desire comfort, we are driven by insecurity, we lust after one another, and there is no law that unites us. If there was such a law presiding over humanity, we have eluded enforcing it at every opportunity. We are savages and we live in a savage world -- one populated by intelligent savages. If you wish to validate war in one hand or cast it into the shadows, clenching it with your other hand, then observe each war on its merit. We, as humans, will never see the end of war. As humans peace will not be delivered by placating and appeasing totalitarian states which ensalve their own people. Peace will come when one army pacifies all others and the people accept the government it represents and its ways. When wicked states such as Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia conspire to destroy the world's armies and occupy the lands of europe, asia, and africa, then men will not stand for their brand of violence -- their hateful government which ensalves its own people. WWII was won because men would not stand for the evil of the Nazis. Great sacrifices were made. The Soviet Communists did not prevail because the occupied peoples of Europe refused the hammer and sickle's reign. The United States fought wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan (on behalf of the mujahadeen) and stationed its armies in europe to protect it against the rolling communist juggernaut which threated slavery for all of europe. My parents escaped the persecution of the communists, my grandparents survived the Nazis, and I have nothing but hatred for these systems of slavery and bondage. Luckily Christian ideals (the religion was instrumental in the downfall of the Soviet Union, economic considerations aside -- and military considerations as they tie into the economic aspect aside) prevailed and saved the continent from more persecution.

You, who profess Bush to be a man of evil have no concept or understanding of evil. He crushes evil with force -- at times love cannot conquer all, lest the flock perish as we lie in wait. Totalitarian states are not safe with Bush in office. I make no applogies for this. I would like to see you scorn Bush for destroying Tyranny in Afghanistan and Iraq. Mock the march of freedom, for there are legions of men who know the price and will gladly pay it. It is the duty of the strong to protect the weak against the vicious. This is the real world -- we do not resolve issues of slavery or tyranny with kind words or gestures; only with crushing force following ultimatums for freedom. Look to our own history. Our hundreds of thousands dead to cast away slavery in the United States. The hundreds of thousands dead in the American struggle against facism and imperialism in WWII -- the millions who died in Europe alone. The tens of millions of Russians. And the pacific front. Those men who struggled in Korea and Vietnam against Communist based invasions. Our blood has spilled generously to protect the freedom of the world many times over. Your mockery of our intollerance for evil and tyranny, and your casual dismisal of the evils of the Saddams, the Hitlers, the Stalins, the Osama bin Ladens in sickening. It is you who have no heart. Who will not fight for your own freedom or the freedom of others. You who condemn men to perpetual bondage throughout the world -- in Iraq, in the former Soviet Union, and in every instance of your appeasment of tyranny and scorn for our crusade against it.

20,000 counts of first-degree murder make Bush a VERY evil man!

400,000 innocent civilians found in mass graves in Iraq. Saddam Heussein ordered villages gased with chemical weapons -- 5,000 dead -- the survivors horribly deformed. Iran-Iraq war, Saddam uses chemical weapons on the battle field and against Iranian targets. 1 million people die because Saddam wanted some of Iran's oil fields and suspected them to be a threat (1979 Iranian revolution). Attempted assasination of Former President George Bush (senior) in Kuwait in 1993. Not to mention invading Kuwait. Horribly repressing his people for decades.

You speak of 20,000 counts of first degree murder? Our military engaged their and destroyed theirs. Their casualties were 20k+ in the war alone. When civilians die it is because of suicide bombers blowing up cars bombs outside funerals and mosques. Killing children at sewage plant openings. Mortaring schools where elctions may be help. They are the barbarians.

Here is the United States' war record over the last 100 years:

* PHILIPPINES, 1898 - 1910: seizes from Spain, 600,000 Filipinos killed
* PUERTO RICO, 1898: seizes from Spain
* PANAMA, 1901 - 14: separates country from Colombia and annexes canal zone
* HONDURAS, 1903: US marines intervene against revolution
* NICARAGUA, 1912 - 33: 20-year occupation and war against guerrillas
* HAITI, 1914 - 34: occupation
* DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, 1916 - 24: occupation
* CUBA, 1917 - 33: military occupation, made into economic protectorate
* RUSSIA, 1917 - 22: troops sent five times to try to overthrow revolution
* YUGOSLAVIA, 1919: marines intervene against Serbs
* PANAMA, 1925: marines suppress general strike
* CHINA, 1927 - 34: marines stationed throughout the country
* EL SALVADOR, 1932: warships sent during revolt
* JAPAN, 1945: firebombs Tokyo and other cities, drops atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki
* PUERTO RICO, 1950: independence rebellion crushed
* KOREA, 1950 - 53: US and South Korea fight China and North Korea to stalemate. US threatens to use nuclear bombs. At least two million Korean civilians killed or wounded
* IRAN, 1953: CIA overthrows democracy
* GUATEMALA, 1954: CIA directs invasion after government nationalized land belonging to US United Fruit company
* LEBANON, 1956: US troops land
* VIETNAM, 1960 - 75: two million Vietnamese killed in longest US war
* INDONESIA, 1965: one million killed in CIA-assisted coup
* GUATEMALA, 1966: troops intervene
* CAMBODIA, 1969 - 75: US carpet-bombs. Two million killed by years of bombing and starvation
* CHILE, 1973: CIA-backed coup overthrows democratically elected government
* ANGOLA, 1976 - 92: CIA assists South African backed rebels
* LIBYA, 1981: two Libyan jets shot down
* EL SALVADOR, 1981 - 92: troops and air power assist death squads, 75,000 people killed
* NICARAGUA, 1981 - 90: CIA directs Contra invasions
* LEBANON, 1982 - 84: US forces intervene, navy shells Beirut
* HONDURAS, 1983 - 89: US troups build bases for death squads
* GRENADA, 1983: US invasion
* LIBYA, 1986: capital Tripoli bombed in effort to kill President Gadaffi
* IRAN, 1987: Iranian passenger jets shot down over Persian Gulf
* PANAMA, 1989 - 90: invasion, thousands of civilians killed
* GULF WAR, 1990 - 91: US-led coalition kills 100,000 Iraqis. Post war sanctions kill an estimated one million civilians in the following ten years
* SOMALIA, 1992 - 94: US-led United Nations occupation
* EX-YUGOSLAVIA, 1995: bombs Serbs and assists ethnic cleansing
* SUDAN, 1998: bombs pharmaceutical factory
* IRAQ, 1998: four days of air strikes, raids continue until present day
* SERBIA 1989: 78 days of NATO air strikes
* AFGHANISTAN, 2001: US-led war kills thousands
* IRAQ, 2003-?: US-led war kills tens of thousands

(source)

jmatucd, if you plan on making an argument you should first make sure that you know what you're talking about and that you're not blatantly biased. Secondly, insulting the people you disagree with accomplishes nothing.

I can just give you a few lines.

Soviet Union : murdered tens of millions of their own citizens through starvation, gulags, labor camps, sending their troops into battle without guns and shooting them if they do not run into the roaring slaughter of the Nazis.

Nazis : murdered tens of millions. high millions killed in death camps (concentration camps) where they were gased, put in starvation chambers, starved and forced to labor leading to widespread death, and inhumane 'medical' experiments.

United States: Kills Nazis. Fights Soviet Union in proxy wars and protects Europe and the entire world from the Soviet juggernaut. Soviet Union dies under economic collapse from unsustainable military expendatures leading to food lines with no food left to give and no one being payed or given sustinance for months on end. United States protects Kuwait from unprovoked Iraqi invasion. United States destroys government of mass murderer (see above post), places genocidal maniac on trail, kills two demented sons. Free elections held. Going back into the past.... Protects South Vietnam from North Vietnamese invasion. Protects South Korea (successfully unlike in vietnam) against North Korean invasion (we fought the chinese in infantry battles and 'North Korean' migs were flown by Russian pilots.). United States assures Israel is protected through '67, '73 arab invasions. United States frees Europe from Nazism by staging largest amphibious assault in history. Invades France. Restores French Sovereign government and discards Vichy pro-Nazi government. Liberates rest of Europe to to the point of West Germany where Soviet Forces hold East Europe. Cold war: Soviets collapse. East Europe free.

Whose side are you on?


Do not lecture me. You will resent the battle I am willing to wage to assure the truth prevails.

And that worked out so well didn't it?



ghotistix wasn't lecturing you, he was showing you the facts. Notice that he left out the Nazis and the Soviet Union. The United States has done some excellent things as well as terrible things. A wise person should be willing to see both sides of topic. Hopefully the truth will prevail, but when discussing history there are many different truths.

"Protects South Korea (successfully unlike in vietnam)"

Read my statements next time.


What has the united states done that is supposedly horrible? Killing WHICH DICTATOR? INSTALLING WHAT DEMOCRACY?

we are powerful and we help others with our power and we pay for it ourselves. do not add insult to our injury in war and peace.

I did read that actually. I just don't understand why you said 'Protects South Vietnam from North Vietnamese invasion' when it doesn't help your argument.



Read ghotistix's post.



The US is a powerful country. Unfortunately, the US too often plays the hero (and always thinks it is the hero) and as a result often does more harm than good. Note: I said often, not always.

Do you honestly believe that the Iraqis make no attempt to justify their actions? They could come up with seemingly logical reasons behind every act against humanity they've ever performed just as well as you have for the United States. Whether it is truly justified or not in situations like those will likely never be known, because no side is without bias.

In the United States, the reasoning behind any war is hammered into our minds to make sure the citizens don't forget what we're fighting for, and our enemies are portrayed as monsters that mindlessly slaughter innocent people for no reason. Notice how you yourself never once mentioned why Saddam ordered the villages slaughtered, while you violently defended the United States' reasoning.

Oh and your theory on Vietnam gave me the best laugh I've had all week.

"our enemies are portrayed as monsters that mindlessly slaughter innocent people for no reason."

They are murderers who purposely target civilians. They do not have a message. They merely kill. They do not propose a government, and order, or any vision of sanity -- merely martyrdom -- if you slaughter 'infidels' (read: anyone not partaking in your martyrdom operations and killing) you will go to heaven and be rewarded. This is a mental sickness. To senselessly target and kill civilians ... and then to glorify it to perpetuate more slaughter? And for what? they stand for nothing. They are degenerate forms of life, they pedal death and nothing more.

"Notice how you yourself never once mentioned why Saddam ordered the villages slaughtered"

Those were innocent civilians! noncombatants!! ! Men women and children. Have you not seen the videos shot of the survivors and of the immediate aftermath of the attack? The streets lined with corpses who fell where they were walking or standing. Their skin burned off by the chemicals!! ! You want to know why Saddam did it? Because HE'S A KILLER. Same reason why there are 400,000 Iraqis in mass graves murdered by the secret and plain police. He is insane -- he merely kills and kills, represses his people, and retains his kingdom at all costs.

WHY YOU ASK? A VILLAGE WITH INNOCENT PEOPLE. GASED! Their skin burned by the chemicals, their lungs...... my god, what world do you live in??????

edit: I won't argue this, it is pointless. Call it a day

You are correct, jmatucd; what was it that Plato guy said? Only the dead have seen the end of war.

The powerful live, and can shape the world around them; the weak perish. Fortunately for us, the US is the one wielding the might; not perfect, and the main motives not altruistic, but certainly preferable to all the alternatives. Long may it continue.

Oh, you're correct, too, that it's pointless to argue this with liberals. They view the world differently: they see peace as the status quo; that love and tolerance overcomes all - nice thoughts, but total crap. (though, I accept that they think the same of my opinions )

Ah, ghotistix:

There's enough information in the public domain to weigh the actions of President Bush against the old Iraqi regime, and come to some reasonably accurate conclusions. You are right that both sides have killed large numbers of civilians in the recent conflict, but there's plenty of evidence to suggest that the US forces do their best to avoid civilian deaths; that could not be said of the Iraqi regime.

You've criticised the US for engaging in that list of conflicts you've produced, but I think you forget why you are able to sit behind your PC, in relative luxury, and do this. That applies to many people in many countries, including us here in the UK. We all owe the US a huge debt of gratitude. Has it crossed your mind that, unlikely as it may seem, the Iraqis may, at some point in the future, feel the same?

jmatucd:

A quote from Alex's "Terms of Service:

"The policy regarding acceptable behaviour on the forums is as follows:

Personal attacks, which include insinuation, ridicule and personal insults, regardless of whether direct or indirect, are not allowed on the forums."