Governments. A simple question.

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We don't need anarchy!

elaborate

Extremely large government, including the whole infrastructure- companies, distributing supplies, running everything.(Socialist Machinocracy- a word I invented.) The government is the nation.

Libertarianism would be a huge step back for humanity. Anarchy anyone? Humanity would have no goals, but that of the individual- and individuals are, as a whole, stupid. The human race would go nowhere.

Um, anarchy isn't "chaos and disorder" like the media tells people it is. Real anarchy is organized, and does have laws that are decided upon by the community. They also elect who will be their doctors, lawyers, police, firemen, teachers, etc.... Officials are delegated by the people, not elected. Delegated means they can be removed at any time, and are under constant supervision of the consensus of the people. There are no politics per say in anarchy, but there are laws.

A more modernised version of anarchy, one could say, would be technocracy.

Sounds a bit too far and dangerous to individual freedom. Not only that, I think that the enormity of the task will lead to failures.

So, your proposition to deal with human stupidity is to force all people to submit to the minds and goals of a select group? Now, that seems to me a call for totalitarianism and a dictatorship on the level of which mankind has not seen outside or perhaps even within Stalinist Russia. I don't think that these outside individuals know my life and my desires better than I do, and for that reason do not wish to have them enforce their will upon my own. Not only that but directed by my individual interests I do push forward, and many of my fellows do and out of self-interest rather than abstract communalistic goals.

You're going the wrong way!

Most achievements are made from self interest. No one organised the "Wright Brothers" to build planes for humanity, they did it out of self interest, yet, humanity benefitted. It is the allowance to achieve personal goals that will better everyone.

Anarchy would be the best system if we had unlimited resources.

I know full well that people will not work for nothing. And I have devised a system, which is immensely complex and radical to capitalism, yet it incorporates reasoning and human nature. People need to feel that they have achieved something, and gotten something out of their work, in most cases, and they should be paid credits accordingly. You make an innovation, you are given a large reward.

Libertarianism is all about self interest. Machinocracy is all about balancing human nature and the advancement of humanity, whilst being fair to everyone. No, you won't find it on wikipedia, before you try looking. It is my own socio-political-economic theory.

Ya, in an open market, you'd be paid handsomely for it too - Libertarian. Not about self interest, about opportunity to be happy.

Its about people having choices on how to pursue life, not other people telling others.

What if someone is weak and disabled? You want them to die without welfare?

Welfare = Charity

We're just getting them the money differently. Its the difference between 'force' and 'request'

I do not need a government. this statement is not congruent with the question: "Do we need governments?"

This is fantastic news.

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What if more or less everyone is an apathetic as*hole, due to the culture of selfishness instituted by libertarianism?

"Leave it all to charity" No, it is the nation's duty to shelter and look after its citizens.

Future Supreme Court Chief Justice John Jay stated, in Federalist number 2, that "Nothing is more certain the indispensable necessity of Government, and it is equally undeniable, that however it is instituted, the people must cede to it some of their natural rights, in order to vest it with requisite powers."

The question then then, ceding the necessity of government, is what type of government would be acceptable. John Jay, along with Alexander Hamilton, and James Madison, where arguing for a Constitution Government of a type that has evolved into the present type (not that they necessarily would have endorsed all of it).

In general, I do not believe a non-government is even practical since it leaves a enormous void that is likely to be filled by those who would eventually wish to take control again.

Apathetic?

Lets put it this way - UNICEF, with all the s**t going on today, still exists. All charities still exist today. "Selfishness" instituted by libertarianism? The fact you label it selfish demonstrates your lack of understanding towards the philosophy behind it.

Right now, government forces people to give. Do you understand what the entails? Force?

Look, everyone on this planet and their sister can find a problem. Someone may know someone who is homeless, dying of cancer, is a sick child who is poor, is concerned about Darfur, etc. The thing is, we have a million problems and government forcing me to donate to welfare, something that doesnt even work, is senseless. Its one problem contained within a billion so why fix that one over the others? I want to help other problems. I dont care about helping those who have babies, are 19 years old, and whining about it.

I want to help Darfur but my pay check, its so small by the time I'm taken care of and "socialism" is. I've no choice. You see, you want to force people to help because you think they should so they should be forced into it like a form of slavory. Now, me, I think people should have the CHOICE that if they are going to give, they can give to what they want to rather then having 200-300 dollars a paycheck go towards "Welfare," national day care services (whether you have a child or not), and whatever health care they say you can have.

But, you're right, *I'm* selfish for giving people a choice. If that's selfish, what is what you describe refered to as? Forceful? Dictatorship? What?

People do not get into charity and volunteering through "being told to do it" like socialism does. They get into it because they either know someone (a child) or are passionate about it.

Last edited by Corvus on 12 Feb 2007, 2:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.