Understanding infinity from boolean logic and geometry

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dexkaden
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10 Mar 2007, 1:48 am

You are not making any sense.


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Flagg
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10 Mar 2007, 2:05 am

MY BRAIN!

IT BURNS!


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Erlyrisa
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10 Mar 2007, 2:35 am

Sorry I'll S---- Up now. -- oh just one more...

...does an Atisitc ever make any sense? -I know I have never made sense with my peers.

I guess the best I could do to keep the conversation going - or to extuinguish it is...

I don't beleive in infinity., but I don't believe in an End.


Now I'll s- up , and just sit back and read. -Sory.



Dr_Mobius
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10 Mar 2007, 4:14 pm

I believe that what Erlyrisa is trying to say, is that physics interpreted in a holistic manner is fundamentally intuitive.



Flagg
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10 Mar 2007, 5:57 pm

Dr_Mobius wrote:
I believe that what Erlyrisa is trying to say, is that physics interpreted in a holistic manner is fundamentally intuitive.


Your just confusing me more, please explain it in English.


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dexkaden
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10 Mar 2007, 8:12 pm

Physics is intuitive; the math is just there to define the intuition. I am not quite sure how to can not believe in infinity but also believe that there is no end. That seems counterintuitive.


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Claradoon
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10 Mar 2007, 9:16 pm

I'm still reading but ...
Bertrand Russell's big brother tried to teach him that 1+1=2 (he was 5 years old). Russell didn't believe it. He finally settled for accepting it for the sake of discussion, but he never did find any reason to believe it.

Is this the sort of thing you're talking about? I'm not science, but I love what you're writing about. Why doesn't anybody ever come here and talk about infinity?

I've been really annoyed about infinity ever since Asimov's book on it, where he showed the absurdities.

Many thanks for the article, I'll go read some more ...



Claradoon
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10 Mar 2007, 9:48 pm

Okay everybody, I *loved* that whole discussion! Where can I get more? Remembering that I don't have a science background. The level of the first post would be good, although I had to read it out loud.

And physics being intuitive? Anything I can read on that?

Thank you. :D This was fun.



snake321
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10 Mar 2007, 10:26 pm

I do believe in infinity from a philosophical perspective, but my math skills suck so I really do not feel I am ready for this conversation yet..... Eventually I'll have time to improve my math skills so I can find out how to explain philosophical things mathematically.



Mandelbrot
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12 Mar 2007, 1:39 pm

Intuitive physics stuff:

* The Tao of Physics
* The New Science of the Spirit

*Anything on Nikola Tesla



Claradoon
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12 Mar 2007, 2:41 pm

Thank you! :D
(heading over to Amazon now...)



dumbgenius
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06 May 2007, 10:50 pm

Infinity is good as a concept. Some people used it enough that they created a placeholder for it.
Though in the real word the universe is quantized. It is all measured in units, it is useful. Infinity doesn't help solve problems in the universe. If you need to use infinity to solve a problem, then you're asking the wrong questions. It's just my view. I see no use for it in most cases.

You use real examples to make a point. I get the idea, but see too many problems at the basic level. All I see are units. The universe does not have infinite resolution. In the end there are bits, 0s and 1s, existent or non-existent. So I don't think the universe is programmed to support a variable called “infinity”. The universe is made up of rules and laws. Why use infinity when you can use something more exact.

As far as being boolean, as in being a unit of 1 or 0...isn't this known as quanta? The universe is made of measurable amounts of energy. It is measurable. Infinity is not. I guess infinity could be used as a “don't care/unknown” bit.

Quote:
Once you understand that its infinitely reflective *unidirectional* geometric series of "vortex like (spinning)" conic rays towards a point in space, or a surface like your mirror, that fades (compresses) into a point that merges, because all the images when you look off into that "hall of mirrors" you've just created merges into an area (a completely filled space near the "Vanishing point" (the point where objects lose their boundaries and become unbounded)), all the images created from that eternal reflection, at some point become squished together "infinitely" (completely filled) where no object is distinguishable from any other object: all objects merge and lose their boundaries! (That is to lose distinction or boundedness)


If the reflection gets small enough there will be a limited number of photons left. The photons that are left will represent a few different units of energy, That will be the end of the “infinite picture creation loop”. The real world gets in the way. Data gets dropped. Not enough resolution.

In a final attempt at understanding infinity, I mentally overclocked my brain, but all I got were cold chills and corrupted data, along with a really nice light show of dots and lines in my minds eye. It does not compute. After 25 seconds of intense focus, which is an infinity for me, I decided to give up (Is infinity relative?). But then, I'm just a technician that couldn't focus enough to get through the calculus requirements of engineering. I remember calculus had a lot more infinity variables, so I stuck to algebra and trig.

I like fractals. That's probably the closest I can get to seeing and understanding infinity in the real world. There are fractals everywhere.

Change the binary units to trinary logic and the positive and negative data space cancels itself out to nothingness. Therefore infinity is nothing. Symmetry solves infinity, reducing it to nothingness. Nothing can be measured as a lack of one. Therefore it is not infinite. A lack of one can only be infinite if the number of ones are infinite. Since one can be measured as a unit, infinity cannot exist. I'm not making any sense any more. Time to stop.



JakeG
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11 May 2007, 10:12 pm

Wow...my BS quota has been filled up about sixty times over just from reading the first post.



JakeG
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11 May 2007, 10:26 pm

Mordy wrote:
People try to think of infinity as a number, but it can't actually "BE a number" in the traditional sense of how we understand numbers, because a number is a an object and objects are BOUNDED (defined) to mean something.


It depends what you mean by a 'number', there are certain constructs that employ a special point sometimes called a 'point at infinity' as an element of a set e.g. projective geometries (inc. groups on elliptic curves), certain topological sets.

Mordy wrote:
Traditional mathematics obscures the concept of infinity because math is a tool for measurement, but most mathematicians forget that math is arbitrarily defined symbols we apply to positions on a line or surface somewhere located in a space.


Quite incorrect, most of modern mathematics is based on logical deductions that follow from the Zermelo-Fraenkel-(Choice) Axioms, sure much of the history of mathematics was evolved from attempts to measure and describe the physical world but to say it is just a tool for measurement is a great misunderstanding of the scope of modern mathematics and the different branches thereof.

Mathematics doesn't obscure he concept of infinity, in fact it makes it much more precise; most instances where a mathematician uses the common symbol for infinity; this is actually just notation representing a definition that doesn't involve the term infinity at all e.g. in most real analysis, the positive and negative infinity symbols are used as directions.



JakeG
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11 May 2007, 10:29 pm

dexkaden wrote:
Physics is intuitive; the math is just there to define the intuition.


Exactly, making one's ideas rigourous clarifies what is good intuition and what is bad intuition.



JakeG
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11 May 2007, 10:35 pm

Erlyrisa wrote:

when you realise that math is nothing more than a language. .. to convey views concerning observation.


Incorrect on both counts. Mathematical ideas are independent of the particular notation or language one uses to describe them; it is just that as time has gone on a particular type of language associated with mathematics has evolved but one can just as easily translate it all into a new language.

Mathematics isn't about conveying views concerning observation; that is the role of science.