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Fnord
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21 Jul 2020, 4:40 pm

League_Girl wrote:
How can one be conservative and not be racist, white supremacist, xenophobic, homophobic?  Maybe the definition of conservative has changed and the person who claims to be one hasn't updated their label yet.
Because "conservatism" is not monolithic -- it is not a one-size-fits-all proposition.  For instance...

Economic Conservatism: A political and economic philosophy regarding fiscal policy and fiscal responsibility advocating low taxes, reduced government spending and minimal government debt.  Purchase only what you can afford right now, or save up until you can pay in full -- no deficit spending or paying on credit.

Social Conservatism: The belief that society is built upon a network of relationships which need to be upheld through duty, positive traditional values (e.g., "liberty, equality, fraternity"), and established institutions (e.g., courts, schools, et cetera).  Placing equal or more emphasis on the duties and responsibilities of individuals than on individual rights and privileges.

Political Conservatism: Smaller government and/or fewer restrictive laws.  Opposition to the intrusion of government into people's lives -- separation of Church and State, for example, with no special privileges or restrictions for any religious belief systems beyond that which the law allows or requires for any other business.

Legal Conservatism: Fewer laws; but laws that are more effective; A justice system that dispenses justice regardless of sex, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, physical ability/disability, mental ability/disability, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity/expression, sex characteristics, religion, ancestry, or political opinions; Less allowance for lack of evidence; Decriminalization of non-violent crimes; and Decriminalization of divorce.

A person can be a fiscal conservative ("Don't spend money you don't already have!") but socially liberal ("Gay marriage is just marriage!").

Sadly, some people see the word "Conservative" and think only "Wealthy white male bigot" (i.e., Donald J. Trump) and not "Thrifty, honorable, law-abiding person who keeps his nose out of your business" (i.e., Me).

People like President Trump have ruined forever the true meaning of "Conservative".


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League_Girl
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21 Jul 2020, 5:00 pm

Fnord wrote:
League_Girl wrote:
How can one be conservative and not be racist, white supremacist, xenophobic, homophobic?  Maybe the definition of conservative has changed and the person who claims to be one hasn't updated their label yet.
Because "conservatism" is not monolithic -- it is not a one-size-fits-all proposition.  For instance...

Economic Conservatism: A political and economic philosophy regarding fiscal policy and fiscal responsibility advocating low taxes, reduced government spending and minimal government debt.  Purchase only what you can afford right now, or save up until you can pay in full -- no deficit spending or paying on credit.

Social Conservatism: The belief that society is built upon a network of relationships which need to be upheld through duty, positive traditional values (e.g., "liberty, equality, fraternity"), and established institutions (e.g., courts, schools, et cetera).  Placing equal or more emphasis on the duties and responsibilities of individuals than on individual rights and privileges.

Political Conservatism: Smaller government and/or fewer restrictive laws.  Opposition to the intrusion of government into people's lives -- separation of Church and State, for example, with no special privileges or restrictions for any religious belief systems beyond that which the law allows or requires for any other business.

Legal Conservatism: Fewer laws; but laws that are more effective; A justice system that dispenses justice regardless of sex, age, race, ethnicity, nationality, physical ability/disability, mental ability/disability, sexual orientation, gender, gender identity/expression, sex characteristics, religion, ancestry, or political opinions; Less allowance for lack of evidence; Decriminalization of non-violent crimes; and Decriminalization of divorce.

A person can be a fiscal conservative ("Don't spend money you don't already have!") but socially liberal ("Gay marriage is just marriage!").

Sadly, some people see the word "Conservative" and think only "Wealthy white male bigot" (i.e., Donald J. Trump) and not "Thrifty, honorable, law-abiding person who keeps his nose out of your business" (i.e., Me).

People like President Trump have ruined forever the true meaning of "Conservative".



Honestly lot of those you listed just sounds like common sense. many of us are taught don't want something, save up for it and also it's common sense to understand "just because you have money to buy it doesn't mean you can afford it."

But however I would not call myself a conservative. I have been told I am liberal so I call myself a liberal and if liberalism wasn't socially acceptable, I would not be using that label to describe myself or people would think "whiner, snowflake, delusional, communist, free loader, lazy." All these terms conservatives have labeled libs.


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Fnord
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22 Jul 2020, 11:05 am

League_Girl wrote:
Honestly lot of those you listed just sounds like common sense.  Many of us are taught don't want something, save up for it; and also it's common sense to understand, "just because you have money to buy it doesn't mean you can afford it."
"Common Sense" is behind many Conservative and Liberal ideas.  Example: Many Liberals are in favor of "gay marriage", while many Conservatives see "gay marriage" and erase the word "gay" -- not to erase being gay, but because they view all marriages as just "marriage", gay or otherwise.  It's the Republicans (not the Conservatives) who get all uptight about the very existence of the LGBTQ community.  Unhappily, the GOP has appropriated the word "Conservative" to label their policy of supporting only those wealthy white male bigots who donate money to Republican (re-)election campaigns.
League_Girl wrote:
But however I would not call myself a conservative. I have been told I am liberal so I call myself a liberal and if liberalism wasn't socially acceptable, I would not be using that label to describe myself or people would think "whiner, snowflake, delusional, communist, free loader, lazy." All these terms conservatives have labeled libs.
That made me laugh!  Think about it...

"Conservative": A wealthy white male bigot who donates money to the Republican cause. :roll:

"Liberal": A lazy, free-loading, delusional, whining, communist snowflake who donates money to the Democratic cause. :roll:

Why can't we all dispense with labels and just get along?


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magz
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22 Jul 2020, 11:18 am

Fnord wrote:
"Conservative": A wealthy white male bigot who donates money to the Republican cause. :roll:

"Liberal": A lazy, free-loading, delusional, whining, communist snowflake who donates money to the Democratic cause. :roll:

Finally we've got descriptions that give some insight into the other side's perspective :P


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