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Billy Graham Statue in Capitol Building

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TwilightPrincess
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16 Jul 2022, 9:00 pm

There’s a difference between historical art with its flaws and prejudices and contemporary art that depicts the past. People often dehumanize people to uphold prejudice and their acts of tyranny. Seeing that portrayal was a small window into the past which can teach a modern spectator something.

I don’t believe in whitewashing art or history because we need to know where we’ve been to know where we are going.

In this day and age, we should know better than to make statues that glorify Confederate “heroes,” though. There’s no excuse for it.



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 9:19 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
Americans don’t think of Native Americans that often. If it wasn’t for our pervasive issues with racism towards African Americans, we’d probably think about them more.

There are several statues of specific Native Americans in the Capitol Building.


This is also shared in our various English speaking colonies. We pay no heed to the vanquished minorities or their concerns. But if they dare touch our statues...!



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 9:21 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s a difference between historical art with its flaws and prejudices and contemporary art that depicts the past. People often dehumanize people to uphold prejudice and their acts of tyranny. Seeing that portrayal was a small window into the past which can teach a modern spectator something.

I don’t believe in whitewashing art or history because we need to know where we’ve been to know where we are going.

In this day and age, we should know better than to make statues that glorify Confederate “heroes,” though. There’s no excuse for it.


To be fair, the average person has no idea who the statue is or even what they represent in terms of their historic significance. I hear commonly, why remove it? it's out heritage.



TwilightPrincess
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16 Jul 2022, 9:29 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s a difference between historical art with its flaws and prejudices and contemporary art that depicts the past. People often dehumanize people to uphold prejudice and their acts of tyranny. Seeing that portrayal was a small window into the past which can teach a modern spectator something.

I don’t believe in whitewashing art or history because we need to know where we’ve been to know where we are going.

In this day and age, we should know better than to make statues that glorify Confederate “heroes,” though. There’s no excuse for it.


To be fair, the average person has no idea who the statue is or even what they represent in terms of their historic significance. I hear commonly, why remove it? it's out heritage.


This thread is about the statues in the Capitol Building. If you tour it (as you must if you want to see the most interesting stuff), you will be told who specific statues represent and you will be given a little backstory about that person’s significance. There are also clear engravings that you can’t miss.



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 9:32 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s a difference between historical art with its flaws and prejudices and contemporary art that depicts the past. People often dehumanize people to uphold prejudice and their acts of tyranny. Seeing that portrayal was a small window into the past which can teach a modern spectator something.

I don’t believe in whitewashing art or history because we need to know where we’ve been to know where we are going.

In this day and age, we should know better than to make statues that glorify Confederate “heroes,” though. There’s no excuse for it.


To be fair, the average person has no idea who the statue is or even what they represent in terms of their historic significance. I hear commonly, why remove it? it's out heritage.


This thread is about the statues in the Capitol Building. If you tour it (as you must if you want to see the most interesting stuff), you will be told who specific statues represent and you will be given a little backstory about that person’s significance. There are also clear engravings that you can’t miss.

Oh yes, that's a good point. Have tourists complained though?



TwilightPrincess
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16 Jul 2022, 9:35 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
There’s a difference between historical art with its flaws and prejudices and contemporary art that depicts the past. People often dehumanize people to uphold prejudice and their acts of tyranny. Seeing that portrayal was a small window into the past which can teach a modern spectator something.

I don’t believe in whitewashing art or history because we need to know where we’ve been to know where we are going.

In this day and age, we should know better than to make statues that glorify Confederate “heroes,” though. There’s no excuse for it.


To be fair, the average person has no idea who the statue is or even what they represent in terms of their historic significance. I hear commonly, why remove it? it's out heritage.


This thread is about the statues in the Capitol Building. If you tour it (as you must if you want to see the most interesting stuff), you will be told who specific statues represent and you will be given a little backstory about that person’s significance. There are also clear engravings that you can’t miss.

Oh yes, that's a good point. Have tourists complained though?


There has been a lot of backlash and criticism in general. They have tried repeatedly to get the Confederate statues out, but the bill keeps on not going through.

A bill is currently in the works so we’ll see.



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 9:42 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
There has been a lot of backlash and criticism in general. They have tried repeatedly to get the Confederate statues out, but the bill keeps on not going through.

One is currently in the works so we’ll see.


So in addition to offending modern sensibilities there are also bureaucratic hurdles



TwilightPrincess
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16 Jul 2022, 9:42 pm

“Virginia removed its statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in 2020 and plans to replace it with one of civil rights leader Barbara Johns. In 2019, Arkansas decided to replace both its statues — of white supremacist James Paul Clarke and Confederate sympathizer Uriah Milton Rose — with depictions of civil rights activist Daisy Bates and musician Johnny Cash, though both of the old statues remain in the Capitol.

Including Rose’s, nine statues depicting Confederates are still displayed in the Capitol: Joseph Wheeler representing Alabama, Alexander Stephens representing Georgia, Edward Douglass White representing Louisiana, Jefferson Davis and James Z. George representing Mississippi, Zebulon B. Vance representing North Carolina, Wade Hampton III representing South Carolina and John E. Kenna representing West Virginia.

Neither Congress nor the Architect of the Capitol, the agency that maintains the statues, has the authority to remove them. Under current law, statues representing a state may only be replaced with the approval of that state’s legislature and governor.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... e-capitol/



cyberdad
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16 Jul 2022, 9:45 pm

Twilightprincess wrote:
“Virginia removed its statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in 2020 and plans to replace it with one of civil rights leader Barbara Johns. In 2019, Arkansas decided to replace both its statues — of white supremacist James Paul Clarke and Confederate sympathizer Uriah Milton Rose — with depictions of civil rights activist Daisy Bates and musician Johnny Cash, though both of the old statues remain in the Capitol.

Including Rose’s, nine statues depicting Confederates are still displayed in the Capitol: Joseph Wheeler representing Alabama, Alexander Stephens representing Georgia, Edward Douglass White representing Louisiana, Jefferson Davis and James Z. George representing Mississippi, Zebulon B. Vance representing North Carolina, Wade Hampton III representing South Carolina and John E. Kenna representing West Virginia.

Neither Congress nor the Architect of the Capitol, the agency that maintains the statues, has the authority to remove them. Under current law, statues representing a state may only be replaced with the approval of that state’s legislature and governor.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... e-capitol/


Ok so the ball is rolling, that's good



TwilightPrincess
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16 Jul 2022, 9:48 pm

cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
“Virginia removed its statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in 2020 and plans to replace it with one of civil rights leader Barbara Johns. In 2019, Arkansas decided to replace both its statues — of white supremacist James Paul Clarke and Confederate sympathizer Uriah Milton Rose — with depictions of civil rights activist Daisy Bates and musician Johnny Cash, though both of the old statues remain in the Capitol.

Including Rose’s, nine statues depicting Confederates are still displayed in the Capitol: Joseph Wheeler representing Alabama, Alexander Stephens representing Georgia, Edward Douglass White representing Louisiana, Jefferson Davis and James Z. George representing Mississippi, Zebulon B. Vance representing North Carolina, Wade Hampton III representing South Carolina and John E. Kenna representing West Virginia.

Neither Congress nor the Architect of the Capitol, the agency that maintains the statues, has the authority to remove them. Under current law, statues representing a state may only be replaced with the approval of that state’s legislature and governor.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... e-capitol/


Ok so the ball is rolling, that's good


Yeah, but some people think it’s a good idea to replace an offensive statue with one of a homophobic evangelist in the Capitol Building.



cyberdad
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17 Jul 2022, 1:16 am

Twilightprincess wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
Twilightprincess wrote:
“Virginia removed its statue of Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee in 2020 and plans to replace it with one of civil rights leader Barbara Johns. In 2019, Arkansas decided to replace both its statues — of white supremacist James Paul Clarke and Confederate sympathizer Uriah Milton Rose — with depictions of civil rights activist Daisy Bates and musician Johnny Cash, though both of the old statues remain in the Capitol.

Including Rose’s, nine statues depicting Confederates are still displayed in the Capitol: Joseph Wheeler representing Alabama, Alexander Stephens representing Georgia, Edward Douglass White representing Louisiana, Jefferson Davis and James Z. George representing Mississippi, Zebulon B. Vance representing North Carolina, Wade Hampton III representing South Carolina and John E. Kenna representing West Virginia.

Neither Congress nor the Architect of the Capitol, the agency that maintains the statues, has the authority to remove them. Under current law, statues representing a state may only be replaced with the approval of that state’s legislature and governor.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/ ... e-capitol/


Ok so the ball is rolling, that's good


Yeah, but some people think it’s a good idea to replace an offensive statue with one of a homophobic evangelist in the Capitol Building.


I wonder if they can do some type of ballot?



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17 Jul 2022, 1:43 am

Twilightprincess. Your view about Mr Graham is based upon your dissagreement with the Word of God in the Bible. Mr Graham was concerned about the eternal destination of souls. He preached the way to salvation. The way to salvation is a path that few people can accept or take, as if one reads the Word of God, one does not have to read it for long before one realizes that without accepting that Jesus Christ died for your sins, you are going to eternal damnation we call Hell.
Gods laws are like the laws of gravity. You can choose not to believe in them and ignore them, but as soon as you walk off that cliff that we call "Life" that we soon wake up to reality when it is far too late to get our spiritual "Paraschute" which is the free gift of salvation throug Jesus Christ.

It is easy to criticize Gods messagers, but at the end of the day each one of us is held accountable for our lives and the choices we make.

Should we place statues to anyone? I don't think we should no matter who they are! We can remember people who have died but no idolised statue is needed to do this, and remember that no single person has ever walked on this earth without sin except for Jesus Christ, so if we are to put a statue up of anyone anywhere on this earth, it is Him we should honour. No one else anywhere who has done anything good compares.


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TwilightPrincess
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17 Jul 2022, 1:51 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
Twilightprincess. Your view about Mr Graham is based upon your dissagreement with the Word of God in the Bible. Mr Graham was concerned about the eternal destination of souls. He preached the way to salvation. The way to salvation is a path that few people can accept or take, as if one reads the Word of God, one does not have to read it for long before one realizes that without accepting that Jesus Christ died for your sins, you are going to eternal damnation we call Hell.
Gods laws are like the laws of gravity. You can choose not to believe in them and ignore them, but as soon as you walk off that cliff that we call "Life" that we soon wake up to reality when it is far too late to get our spiritual "Paraschute" which is the free gift of salvation throug Jesus Christ.

It is easy to criticize Gods messagers, but at the end of the day each one of us is held accountable for our lives and the choices we make.

Should we place statues to anyone? I don't think we should no matter who they are! We can remember people who have died but no idolised statue is needed to do this, and remember that no single person has ever walked on this earth without sin except for Jesus Christ, so if we are to put a statue up of anyone anywhere on this earth, it is Him we should honour. No one else anywhere who has done anything good compares.


If you actually read this thread, you would see that I disagreed with his homophobia.

I don’t think it is appropriate to mix church and state as well, but I would feel the same way even if I was religious.

I’d be okay with such a statue in a nongovernmental locale. It does not belong in the Capitol Building. I love art and statues in particular. I prefer nudes. (I wish the Founding Fathers would’ve posed nude. It would’ve been more in keeping with the Greco-Roman theme.)

Wow! Someone hasn’t told me that I was going to Hell since I was preaching to a guy (when I was still a Jehovah’s Witness) with nearly identical beliefs as my own. It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. It’s like coming home. I bet it will be nice and toasty in Hell. :heart:



cyberdad
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17 Jul 2022, 2:02 am

Mountain Goat wrote:
It is easy to criticize Gods messagers, but at the end of the day each one of us is held accountable for our lives and the choices we make. .


If we are held accountable then why do we need statues of god's messengers?



TwilightPrincess
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17 Jul 2022, 2:06 am

And I thought Billy Graham was more interested in making massive amounts of money than Jesus.

I guess you learn something new every day.



TwilightPrincess
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17 Jul 2022, 2:08 am

Maybe not.

“According to the wealth-tracking site TheRichest.com, Billy Graham's net worth was an estimated $25 million at the time of his death. That would rank Graham as one of America's eight richest pastors.”

https://money.com/billy-graham-net-wort ... /?amp=true