Populist left has become vulnerable to the populist right

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DeathFlowerKing
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10 Jan 2023, 10:17 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

I believe, once the economic situation gets fixed up, that these radical fringe groups will lose recruits.

People join these sorts of groups because they feel disenfranchised, primarily. They fall under the sway of ideologies which have no relationship to reality.

I think you're absolutely right about that, and I really hope things work themselves out for the better in the US. If not I fear we'll have a sort of violent "revolution" like those that Russia, Cuba, or China experienced. As we all know those countries never truly recovered and in many ways were made worse following the overthrow of their original governments.

I really don't want to live under a brutal dictatorship.

magz
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10 Jan 2023, 10:19 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

Indeed... I hope there will be enough political will to fix the most urgent economical and social issues and less divide-and-conquer politics gaining popularity from tensions and destroying the society in the process.

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ASPartOfMe
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10 Jan 2023, 1:04 pm

MaxE wrote:

This is a great article. People who disavow conservatism while railing against "wokeism", "cancel culture", "BLM riots", etc. are the MAGA crowd's useful idiots.

Quote:

Some of it is legitimate — I, too, worry about opaque internet censorship and certain aspects of cancel culture like self-sabotaging groupthink and targeting people's jobs for misbehavior.

Is the author a useful idiot by mentioning this? It might plant seeds of doubt or distract from the point of the article. What are people who genuinely dislike both supposed to do? Decide who is the lesser of two evils and say nothing bad about them because it makes them useful idiots for the greater evil?

I agree it is an impressive article because it identified a phenomenon that has not been discussed before and broke down why it is bad.

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DeathFlowerKing
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10 Jan 2023, 1:16 pm

I think Americans have been forced to vote for the "lesser evil" for so long that they can no longet tell the difference between the two corrupt sides of the same coin and been brainwashed into thinking the opposing side is irredeemably evil.

It's like nobody in this country seems to grasp the fact that this is NOT how a healthy democracy or a republic works. In fact it's how they always devolve into tyranny and eventually destroy themselves.

ASPartOfMe
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10 Jan 2023, 1:25 pm

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

Racial tensions were high.....it doesn't mean there was the possibility for a nationwide "race war."

Charles Manson believed in the "race war" crap, too.

But I seriously doubt he and his followers were the only ones.

You also had the Black Panthers group who inspired by Malcolm X pretty much advocated for violence against America's white population.

What's funny to me is that in the old days back when we had more rational heads they were rightfully condemned as being violent extremists. But now thanks to the Black Lives Matter movement and "Wokeism" they are being praised as heroes by news sources like CNN, Washington Post, New York Times, etc (and if you think im making this up I'll share these links with you from Google)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.co ... index.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.thegua ... ck-history

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytime ... s.amp.html

Frankly I think the media makes articles like this just to stir s**t up for profit.

Off Topic

At the time they were considered radical leftists. Taking racism out of it they would be right at home in the MAGA movement. They targeted law enforcement not whites in general. They invaded a state capital to protest a gun control measure. They very much men are men and have to be macho. Their free breakfast program was let us not the government take care of the poor. Very conservative of them.

DeathFlowerKing
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10 Jan 2023, 2:26 pm

ASPartOfMe wrote:

Off Topic

Probably even more off topic but I don't believe that men in any culture should have to be "macho" if women in our society are no longer under as much pressure to be "girly".

And being macho is usually code for "Solve all your problems with violence, self-destructive behavior, and toxic masculinity because if you have legit emotions and aren't behaving like a total sociopath then you are not man enough" :roll:

kraftiekortie
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10 Jan 2023, 3:56 pm

True machismo is about stoicism.

If you let your emotions get to you, and get into fights, you are not macho.

DeathFlowerKing
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10 Jan 2023, 4:21 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

True machismo is about stoicism.

If you let your emotions get to you, and get into fights, you are not macho.

It kinda goes both ways as some people in society think a "real man" is supposed to 'show no fear' and basically behave like a disciplined sociopath.

MaxE
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10 Jan 2023, 7:38 pm

Great and revealing discussion.

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DeathFlowerKing
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10 Jan 2023, 7:48 pm

MaxE wrote:

Great and revealing discussion.

I take every discussion from places like Reddit or Quora with a grain of salt because these places are very toxic and they are essentially echo chambers.

MaxE
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11 Jan 2023, 4:52 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

MaxE wrote:

This is a great article. People who disavow conservatism while railing against "wokeism", "cancel culture", "BLM riots", etc. are the MAGA crowd's useful idiots.

I don't feel like a "useful idiot" for simply realizing that both sides are full of BS.

Maybe there's another word for it, but even if you haven't been converted to the MAGA cause, you have been neutralized as you are not motivated to oppose them.

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kraftiekortie
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11 Jan 2023, 7:26 am

MAGA folks think “Making America Great Again” involves installing Trump as Dictator for Life.

DeathFlowerKing
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11 Jan 2023, 8:15 am

MaxE wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

MaxE wrote:

This is a great article. People who disavow conservatism while railing against "wokeism", "cancel culture", "BLM riots", etc. are the MAGA crowd's useful idiots.

I don't feel like a "useful idiot" for simply realizing that both sides are full of BS.

Maybe there's another word for it, but even if you haven't been converted to the MAGA cause, you have been neutralized as you are not motivated to oppose them.

In other words "If you're not with me you're against me" which is more total BS :roll:

Sorry, I aint picking sides simply because I know for a fact that both sides are wrong and are working hard at making this country suck.

DeathFlowerKing
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11 Jan 2023, 8:20 am

kraftiekortie wrote:

MAGA folks think “Making America Great Again” involves installing Trump as Dictator for Life.

And Woke folks think that the US is so irredeemably racist and evil that they practically beg for its destruction.

MaxE
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11 Jan 2023, 8:59 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

MAGA folks think “Making America Great Again” involves installing Trump as Dictator for Life.

And Woke folks think that the US is so irredeemably racist and evil that they practically beg for its destruction.

People with your attitude are a bigger threat than the MAGAs, because they fly under the radar but are doing an untold amount of damage to our democracy.

EDIT and the irony is that if a fascist government were to come into power, you could be one of the first victims.

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Last edited by MaxE on 11 Jan 2023, 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

ASPartOfMe
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11 Jan 2023, 9:10 am

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

kraftiekortie wrote:

MAGA folks think “Making America Great Again” involves installing Trump as Dictator for Life.

And Woke folks think that the US is so irredeemably racist and evil that they practically beg for its destruction.

They don’t want to destroy the country, just thoughts that they don’t agree with.

MaxE wrote:

DeathFlowerKing wrote:

And Woke folks think that the US is so irredeemably racist and evil that they practically beg for its destruction.

People with your attitude are a bigger threat than the MAGAs, because they fly under the radar but are doing an untold amount of damage to our democracy.

We don’t have nearly the weaponry nor the organization of the MAGA’s. And we tend to be a despirated bunch. That is because MAGA’s and wokes have a basic enemy they are trying fight. We are opposing two sides.

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