Toxic Masculinity versus Manning Up?

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Don't agree with either. Masculinity is essential, but calls to "man up" are from bad faith and don't have your true interests at heart. Best to cultivate some degree of masculinity for personal use, not what society thinks is masculine.

Okay, but were talking about overall social expectations.

There has been a huge shift in female expectations, as illustrated in the Snow White versus Elsa rap battle:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcrQvoCzs80

It used to be that girls grew up fantasizing about their weddings, and generally prioritized being swept off their feet by a handsome prince, etc. etc., as promoted by Disney.

Now, girls focus on their careers, and, like Elsa, don't really need men.

Here is the ideal of a woman during the 1970s:



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDqgrZZtLnE

Feminists used to be regarded as radical, at least in the United States. It looks like Femen is still a thing, outside the USA: https://femen.org/

Now, the radical women in the United States are right-wing nutjobs.

And, the female collective largely seems to take its cues from Kim Kardashian. I mean, what could be more ridiculous than an extremely wealthy woman wearing torn pants, and trying to look like she's destitute?

Bill Maher again



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjnJu8g ... hBillMaher

He says that women want courage and communication from men.

He points out that women are communicative creatures. Which, suggests to me that women would be happier with other women that with men.

Since when was Bill Maher credible on anything? He's got all the bitterness of an older George Carlin but none of the valuable insights.

The question "What makes Bill Maher credible?" is beyond the scope of the present discussion.

Do women want courage and communication from men? Whether Bill Maher is credible is irrelevant.

Are women communicative creatures? Bill Maher's credibility has nothing to do with the issue.

Would women be happier with other women that with men? Bill Maher did not say so. Which does not automatically make it true. I'm only stating that if women are communicative, and men are not, and women want communication from a partner, then women might be better off partnering with other women than with men.

I think both sides of the that dichotomy tend to use lazy logic, give bad advice, and make a lot of blunders. Certain members can be outright evil - between trying to castrate men on one end and on the other you have the Tates of the world.

I'm more for seeing an answer to the question - what roles are men allowed to have in a world that requires less brute strength and how do we help men better self-actualize?

Richard Reeves has been making the circuit lately discussing the 'male crisis', the dropout of prime aged men (15 - 64) from the work world to the tune of something like 7 million as Nicholas Eberstadt has also said similar things. Richard actually recommends that boys be 'red-shirted' in education, ie. held back a year because the developmental curve is different and that the consideration is that boys would do better with a learning curve that better matches their preparedness. The idea is that girls and women are killing it in school and in the work world, which is great, but now we have to figure out what's slowing men down and help them to come up so that we have more productive workers (you can make this a GDP-first issue if desired) and to add to that - a lot of highly successful women who want to get married can't find enough men equal or above them so they're stuck getting their eggs frozen and things like that.

I feel like I've seen, for my whole life, that as a culture we go to stupid extremes to prove that they don't work to then find some sort of middle ground but that last step never seems to come from planning ahead and culture always has to line up and put their hand on the hot stove, everyone gets their hand burned, so that it's a communal lesson. Sometimes I really wish it didn't have to be that way but Darwinian evolution and the status and social climbing war of all against all seems to make it necessary.

Society is going through a rapid transformation. The Feminists may celebrate the end of the Patriarchy.

Our ancestors during the 19th century were mostly farmers. Now, because of technological changes, we only need about 2% of the population to work as farmers in order to feed everyone.

In order to produce everything that we need to live, we probably don't even need half of the people to work. But, our culture is centered on working and consuming. A lot of people work long hours, really for nothing. Just like hamsters spinning in a wheel.

Now, the female gender is largely taking over.