Would there have been war if religion hadn't come in being ?

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Hitler was a Catholic Christian in his early life (his given faith) and then basically criticised religions of all types by the end of his life, leaving him either agnostic or atheist by his own words.

From what I have read about him, he seemed to be more inclined toward the latter.

^ Where did he say that he was agnostic or atheistic? People can believe in God or gods without religion. I’ve seen some suggest that he was pantheistic, others suggested that he believed in god without subscribing to a particular belief system. He may have been a Christian, too.

https://richarddawkins.net/2015/01/refu ... tler-myth/

Yes, a person can be theist without believing in Christianity. But I have never seen any solid evidence of that apart from the odd quote pointing in that direction.

I take his actions more than his words to dictate his inner belief system.

Being a mass murderer nullifies any claims he has that he believed in a Christian God at least. If he took anything about Christianity seriously, he wouldn't be killing people en masse. Nor would he have implied that Christianity was a Jewish plot.

Imagine, Adolf Hitler, hater of the Jews and director of the holocaust, believing in a Jewish saviour (Christ). I don't want to laugh but that seems far fetched to say the least.

Considering he denounced often, religions of all kinds & certainly discredited any faith he had with his actions of being a psychopathic mass murderer without any moral principles of note, I would say he was a likely atheist, if not an agnostic.

Christians are not unknown for engaging in horrific behavior and committing crimes. I’ve known Christians who sexually abused children. People can (and do) use the Bible to justify almost any wicked behavior one can imagine, including committing atrocities in holy wars. There are many problematic passages from a moral standpoint in the Bible.

Mein Kampf contains many references to God and religion.

Hitler on Jesus:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religio ... olf_Hitler

I’m not saying Hitler was a Christian, but it would seem that he wasn’t an atheist.

Atheists are not more likely to commit crimes:


https://today.uconn.edu/2017/08/think-a ... l-killers/

I did include material in a previous post that noted that Hitler's views on religion changed significantly over the course of his life.

Mein Kampf was written in 1925, a whole 20 years before world war two ended.

I don't see that as relevant to Hitler's aggregate views on anything really, including God or religion.

It was written long before world war two even started. Imagine how a persons mind must change, being the leader in a savage war that defied all notions of human altruism.

In regards to your quote, it does contain:

"This is of course correlational evidence: it does not mean that being an atheist leads to committing fewer crimes."

In regards to atheists being less likely to commit crimes, I would say that countries that are secular and wealthy, are likely to hold people who are atheist and who are not likely to commit crimes.

But for poorer countries I imagine the inverse is true - religion would keep people on the straight & narrow in terms of giving people a framework for morality, where laws may be less constraining or wealth, less placating.

^^ It demonstrates that they aren’t less moral.

You can’t really say that Hitler was atheist or agnostic or that religion leads to more morality without providing proof. Otherwise, it suggests that one is relying on emotion and personal biases.

What one imagines may not be reality.

I already pointed towards Hitler's actions as being proof of him being atheist or agnostic, as well as a process of deduction, with him not seeming to believe in any kind of religion (evidenced by the Wikipedia article I provided).

Actions are more reliable than words in determining a persons motives & beliefs. Particularly for a politician, where words can be almost meaningless for those types of people.

I think that the people who have the most bias in regards to whether Hitler was a man of faith, or an atheist, are actually atheists, for many reasons, including the obvious one of atheists not wanting to acknowledge that a man who disregarded Christianity in his own words, and who killed people en masse, seemingly without any worry of Godly retribution or consequence - was seemingly atheist in his actions.

Most of your posts seems to bash Christianity on the basis that you had a bad time as a... JW and your viewpoints seem to be neatly aligned with punitively believing anything that opposes Christianity in general.

You don't seem to have a mix of viewpoints, and are often one-sided, which I think indicates you often post based on emotion, as well as anyone else.

https://historyforatheists.com/2021/07/ ... christian/

No, I provide evidence. I’m not bashing Christianity or religion. I don’t think Hitler was a Christian towards the end of his life. Evidence seems to demonstrate that he wasn’t an atheist, either.

Once again, though, Christians are not immune to engaging in despicable behavior and crimes. Many churches have problems with child sexual abuse among other things.

When individuals say that those who do bad things aren’t true Christians, it often keeps them from appreciating systemic problems, especially in individual religious communities, which makes it harder for change to happen.

Last edited by TwilightPrincess on 18 Oct 2023, 11:06 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Ad hominem.

Interesting studies on religiosity and morality:

https://theconversation.com/are-religio ... oral-84560

I don't think Hitler's actions are enough to dismiss the possibility that he held religious beliefs of some kind. Especially when coupled with ideas such as inherent superiority and seeing the Jewish as subhuman. I'd like to refer back to the pseudoscience that was present at the time which was used to justify the dehumanisation. Perhaps I should expand on this when I have more time if the thread is still up.

Killing in the name of a deity or deities is not exactly unheard of. The crusades come to mind.

Of course, there are plenty of examples of atheists killing people. Much like there are plenty of examples of religious folk killing people. Sometimes in the name of God, but not always.

There's a fair amount I'd like to cover. I'll have to return to this thread later.

Exactly he wasn't. He actually despised atheism because he associated it with communism. I don't know why some people make Hitler out to be an atheist even we may never really know what his beliefs were. I think he probably did believe in the existence of a divine being and probably even thought he was "chosen by Providence" after the numerous attempts on his life. The were some nazi leaders who were atheists like Martin bormann who advocated the destruction of churches in the occupied territories.

I even remember seeing Richard Dawkins talking in response about people committing atrocities in the name of religion and that not always the case. He said Stalin was an atheist but he did not do all his terrible deeds in the name of atheism whereas the 9-11 hijackers precisely did do their terrible deeds in the name of religion. I'd also like to point out I'm not defending these people by the way I just want to put across a better understanding.

A lot of people believe 9/11 was an inside job by the US government, since it seems implausible for a group of people who could barely fly small aircraft (some of the terrorist hjackers had flight training at US flight schools in small aircraft and others had never flown any type of aircraft), to pinpoint accurately drive a big commercial plane into a skyscraper (and many other ridiculous things about the official story, which is full of lies, whatever the actual truth is).

Anyone can be radicalised, including atheists.

Whilst it is true that no-one knows whether Hitler was an atheist, he was almost certainly not a Christian.

There really isn't any evidence for that and if you look at Hitler's Wikipedia page on his religious beliefs, there is evidence provided to suggest he didn't like Christianity, referring to it as an "absurdity" amongst other denigration's.

People believe he was atheist because he didn't seem to align with any major religion, and though there is maybe one or two quotes related to him pondering the merits of pantheism amongst other theist positions - there really isn't any strong evidence to suggest he was a theist, either.

By process of deduction/elimination, his indifference to religion and the idea of God (by the end of world war two at least) is interpreted by some people as him being either agnostic or atheist, by some people.

Where is the proof that he wasn't an agnostic or atheist?