Degrees VS Self Education

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Thing is, so many have degrees now, that some employers are avoiding even bothering with people who have degrees in this country. It has also been found that many uni undergraduates have substandard basic knowledge in such things as maths and English, especially English grammar. What does that say about standards at college/university? Not much. It seems ridiculously easy to get a degree these days if you have the finances and time, but that is the problem. It doesn't always teach the skills that the employers want, and the independence of thought...originality. There is nothing original in a degree...a load of others have taken the same one and have the same level of knowledge, thus maybe having a degree PLUS adding something extra of your own might go a long way.

Not sure what you mean by formality here.
I'm certainly NOT suggesting that one ignore
the rules of the game, in terms of how to
present one's findings. But, there are plenty
of fields where there is little or no opportunity
to do any work of value, without association
with a school.

Thought you were interested in EDUCATION,
rather than some sort of job certification. I
know that in the US, you can't even get fairly
menial paper pushing jobs, without some sort
of degree. A matter of you prospective employer
having proof that you are trainable, rather than
any technical knowledge.

That's how it ought to be viewed, but I've found at least some employers expect you to have retained a rather absurd amount of facts if they are to consider you for a job.

I had one that gave me an "exam" as part of the application process. Had me having to recall structures from memory, and I haven't had to draw / name chemical structures in a year or so. More than that, these are all things that I could look up in a reference book, and then apply to something, I'm just not that great at rote memorization.

A lot of it would come back to me with a small amount of exposure or training, which is what most (to my knowledge) employers are hoping for. I've had the exposure that is desired. A lot of that was from laboratory work. Knowing the material is great, but if you haven't had any experience in applying it, it will be a lot harder to find a job where you are expected to do just that.

As was already mentioned, it is possible, but it will take longer. You effectively get the experience considered to be "equivalent" to that obtained when you pursue a degree through several years of working in a position that does not require one, after which you could move up to one that did.

I prefer to have education+life experience and wisdom. The second is more important for long term survival I think...

I am interested in education, but that is not to say I am not permitted to talk about other areas connected to education, including jobs. And since when does a degree make one appear trainable? Utter rot. Some can fly through degrees with minimal work and attendance.

Pretty much the standard, in CS. Reasonable, if
they expect you to be able to code in a given
language, right off.

First one I had to take. Was for a petrochemical position.

Anyone capable of doing that,
at a decent school, is likely capable
of picking up what is necessary from
the job training programs.

It's essentially a screening process.
Saves them the effort of trying to
figure it out for themselves. Regardless
of YOUR view on the matter, this is indeed
how some employers see it.

Anyhow, becoming learned is something
completely different from getting a job.
There aren't many jobs which care about
the depth of your knowledge in unrelated
fields, but an education is (at least supposedly)
to form a well rounded person.

Guidance is very useful. ..

But the vast majority of what goes on in formal schools doesn't involve students with research, which seems to be the thing you're referencing.

I can learn about diesels by asking questions of friends. . . that's guidance. The same applies to physics, or a zillion other things. I don't need a classroom for that, I need a particularly well developed social network.

Research is perhaps a different game.

Pretty much. But, there are advantages
for some in learning in the classroom
(I suppose the formal aspect). And,
there are additional resources available
to students, as well.

Plus, there are certain fields where there
really is a need for classroom time. Performance
arts, for example. But, even in mathematics,
learning problem solving isn't always a mere
matter of learning how to 'do' a particular problem.
If that was all, then a computer could solve
the problems. Setting up word problems,
at a very low level, fits this. It gets MUCH
more difficult once one is looking at really
unique situations, in which there is no
clear methodology to follow.

If you say so, lol.

Things may be different in the UK.
But having seen the direction that
US education has gone in over the
past three decades, from a number
of different angles, I think that I have
a pretty good feel for it here.

If you go to a prestigious university on a good course then this doesnt apply. Its just the former polys who often have some dire courses that cause all the problems.

Yes and No.

Yes in that you can get just as much education, and often even more than a degree. No, because you can rarely used that education to get you a decent job without having a degree to prove your knowledge

Then perhaps if you would look up what a professor used to be and may still be in European Universities, I'd be interested in your response. What passes for such in the States is an abomination.