Not Giving Criminals with AS a Break

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That would be the ideal, but RARELY happens!

Wait, what does some guy making demands for curtains and doughnuts and lovin' have to do with being awful and unrepentant? To me making demands isn't exhibiting an inability to be rehabilitated. Seems more like an exhibition of the want for curtains and doughnuts and lovin'.

The guy in question raped and murdered two small girls, and is NOT sorry for it.

I remember reading about aspies having troubles understanding right from wrong so that explained to me why I got confused about the rules as a kid because kids didn't follow them and didn't get in trouble for it so I thought it was okay to do.

But I do not like it when aspies get excused for a crime they committed. If they know what they did was wrong, they should be punished like a normal person.

I don't think anyone fails to recognize that some are FAR worse off. Who's looking down on them? Still, people here were talking about those claiming to have AS. I even showed doubt on that through my little rant about psychiatrists. Psychiatrists are WELL KNOWN for suggesting things that may NEVER lead to a resolution, and having LONG relationships with patients. Their job is to help the patient become self supported and happy, and yet THEY freely admit they don't. What if they were finally held to task for it?

BTW Most of the LFA people ARE predictable in that they have a comfort level that is OFTEN ignored. I am OFTEN treated in ways that often leads me to imagine what would happen if I was angrier, or a dog. Like the jerk in my cube wasting MY time and destroying MY comfort while I helped him with HIS problem only about a week ago. If I was a dog, he might be DEAD now. You just DON'T act like that around a dog!

Likewise, one would HOPE people would try to keep LFA people more comfortable. I, through communication and reason, am expected to overlook vast trespasses. No person of decent intelligence could expect the same of a very LFA person.

C

Last edited by Zarathustra on 24 Feb 2008, 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Cruxdust, How do you know he is not sorry for it? Spoken to him?

I agree 100%

Yeah, tell me about it! I asked my mother about that like when I was 5 or 6, and she said that they would eventually grow up and stop. Until college, they showed NO sign of caring. Today, there are STILL bullies! They just use the courts and police! I had over $15,000 STOLEN from me "LEGALLY"! That isn't counting the credit and tax stuff that I consider to be just as bad. The $15,000 only includes cases where people used bankruptcy or extortion through the courts to rip me off.

You even have cases where amazon has patented one click ordering, and apple patented "the pinch", though NEITHER is patentable(To be patentable a process is to not be ridiculously simple, instantly obvious, or have prior work)! Apple apparently plans to extort, and amazon already has!

And SCO tried to DESTROY linux through OTHER garbage! I am surprised any of it even made it through the courts. SCO for example had NO right or ability, and it was later revealed that they couldn't/didn't, to retroactively change contracts written decades ago, and obliterate an entire industry.(They basically want rights to "EVERYTHING", including the BSD code licensed to SUN and other companies. That code has been freely used for decades and even AT&T never had any rights to it as it was sold LONG ago. SCO THEMSELVES started through such freedom.) They TRIED to hurt the industry, and ended up going bankrupt! Some idiot gave them $100 Million to bring back the garbage, so they plan to CONTINUE!

I hope justice happens and they go bankrupt AGAIN before paying back a penny.

Yeah you shouldnt use the AS as as excuse. all criminals should be punished and people with AS shouldnt be treated any differently.
its like if they intervieweed for a job but didnt get it coz they werent suited but usd their AS to their advantage to try and get it.
xx

What if an aspie committed a crime because they were being taken advantage of and they didn't even know what they did was wrong because they were lied to about something and were told "Oh this is different, this is totally legal."


What do you guys think?


That's why I don't help people I don't know well. I will not risk getting in trouble with the law because of my gullibility or naiveness. I just don't trust people unless I know them well and I know they will never hurt me. But what if I was threatened to do something, then what?
I just don't want to think about that, just stay away from people period lol. I don't need friends. Only one, my boyfriend.

There are four main purposes of punishment.

1] Reformation

Obviously the most desirable, everyone gains the most if a criminal is rehabilitated.

The only real objection to this is that it doesn't work. The prison system seems to produce more sophisticated criminals, not productive law abiding citzens for the most part. Still, reformation should always be the goal, so it shouldn't be dismissed just because it is rare in our current system.

2] Restraint

For the safety of other people, some people need to be restrained and kept from harming others. That's hardly even a debate. However it is debated how long a criminal should be retrained and that without meaningful reform, unless inprisonment is permanent, prison will only postpone criminal behavior. A good argument, but doesn't justify the abolition of imediate restraint for the protection of society.

3] Retribution

As someone pointed out, many think retribution as a legitimate purpose for punishment is barbaric and unfit for a civilized society. But whether or not it's moral or just in a perfect world, it is demanded by this one. Plus, the availability of institutionalized retribution is necessary to prevent personal retribution.

4] Deterrence

There's individual deterrence and general deterrence. Someone else asked whether punishment worked as a deterrence on children or only created more anger and resentment. On me personally it did (both individual and general). Did it create anger and resentment? You bet it did! But that's not to say that it didn't work, at least for me. I've watched parents that were so afraid of upsetting their young children that they refused to punish them for anything they did. Instead they would try reasoning with them in a kind way. It's not a bad thing to try this at first to see if it actually works, especially if the kid didn't do anything seriously harmful. But this is how one parent's conversation with this hyper and very angry four year old would go, "Now little buddy, it's not very nice to hit people with a golf club, it hurts mommy and daddys feelings. Let's be nice from now on, ok sweetie? Does that sound like a good idea?" Some people think deterrenc doesn't work, but I've seen how it often turns out when you let children choose to be good or bad with nothing more than high hopes that they choose good.

Also, we can't really know that deterrence doesn't work with no control group to compare with. I wouldn't want to be around to find out.

Maybe it's my Celtic/Scandinavian ancestry but I really don't grok at a basic level why people think "cruel and barbaric" are necessarily a bad thing. I truly don't. I agree, that if you're dealing with a crowd of intelligent and sophisticated people, cruel and barbaric is not effective. If you're dealing with a crowd of barely socialized killer apes it's quite effective. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be gangs in America and they wouldn't control so much territory or have such unswerving loyalty from their members... They rule through fear, and it's fear generated by their cruel and barbaric tactics. In turn, if you want to combat them effectively, you have to fight on their terms. Or wipe them out, completely. Those are your basic options. It doesn't matter if you're talking about a major American city's slums, or Bogota, or somewhere in the Third World. Yes, if I had my preference, I'd live in one of the Libertarian Utopias from L. Neil Smith's books... but I live in the real world and for 95% of the people in the world, no matter WHERE they live brutal is what they live with every day. Middle class and higher in a "Western Democracy" is what most or all of us here are... and we're the most privileged class in the history of humanity. We live with more luxury than kings could have dreamed up 300 years ago. I have more books on a flash chip in my palmpilot than a rich man would have owned in his lifetime. My personal library is larger than any university would have had 300 years ago, and I own all that without needed to go armed everywhere or have a small army of personal retainers to defend it. Because in this country and this time I'm barely middle class...

We live a curious lie here in America. Our "puritan" roots tell us crime is a Sin and Sin must be punished... Our psychologists and sociologists tell us that criminals aren't sinners, they're in need of understanding and reform... Both are right and both are wrong, and neither can get it right. If you can get to them before the mindset and ToM of the criminal becomes too hard set, reform may be possible, but once that mindset takes hold, only a rare and unusual criminal will be able to successfully change his own mode of thinking. After that point, they'll only truly comprehend one thing, if we catch you doing this again, we will make the punishment worse. Prisons for minor and younger criminals are too harsh, and prisons for hardened and habitual criminals are too lax. But with our "equality" based vision in this country, everyone must be treated exactly the same way.... it's insane. And we deserve exactly the results we're getting.

How does that relate to AS? And that those of us on the spectrum seem LESS inclined to cut one of the brethren some slack than the general public? How about because we KNOW this isn't a "disability", not for most Aspie's anyway. We may be different, we may be not "normal" but we're not of diminished capacity.

Meanwhile, back on the Hang 'Em & Flog 'Em Thread... Will someone please go to www.google.com and type in "ASPERGER FORENSIC site:.uk" and see what the UK criminal justice system has to say... I hope I don't ever get a jury full of Aspies... I'm running away now before you sentence me to life without parole for being a bleedin' heart liberal. G*d! And yestesday I was worrying about being too right wing...

Uhhhh.... you do the flogging THEN the hanging.... the other way around isn't nasty enough....

Ah! You'd think so, wouldn't you? In Britain Hanging [Briefly] comes first, then a nice cup of tea to revive you, then disemboweling/castration, a quick [c. 8 hours] game of cricket, followed by being chopped into quarters and your head stuck on a stick at the crossroads. Following the recent implimentation of the Human Rights Act, the cricket has been dropped from the schedule.