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is there a scorpio influence in your birthchart?
yes- i have scorpio in my birthchart. 25%  25%  [ 7 ]
yes- i have scorpio in my birthchart. 25%  25%  [ 7 ]
yes- i have a parent / sibling born under scorpio. 14%  14%  [ 4 ]
yes- i have a parent / sibling born under scorpio. 14%  14%  [ 4 ]
no- there are no scorpios in my close family. 11%  11%  [ 3 ]
no- there are no scorpios in my close family. 11%  11%  [ 3 ]
Total votes : 28

eamonn
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22 Sep 2005, 1:59 pm

I dont claim to be able to though. Im just sceptical about the validity of astrology and the reasons behind someone doing it. If i actually thought it worked id be worried.



vetivert
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22 Sep 2005, 2:00 pm

be afraid... be very afraid... arrrrr

(oops - wrong thread... ;) )



NeantHumain
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22 Sep 2005, 3:05 pm

eamonn wrote:
vetivert wrote:

astrology works for me - i use it as part of the jigsaw which makes up a person, when i'm trying to work people out.


So you generalise then. I thought you were against that? My uncle is into astrology and i take offence to him thinking he has a "grounding " of what people are like due to reading a bleedin chart or something. An astrologist knows no more about me than the next person no matter how long he/she has been wasting time on reading this nonsense. Hocus Pocus.

Yes, I would hate for someone to hold a prejudice against me because of my astrological signs. It would be even worse if a potential employer hired people (or didn't) in part because of their sign.

This is similar to phrenology and handwriting analysis. Some handwriting "experts," called graphologists, (not the experts who give testimony at trials stating whether they believing a handwriting sample is a match for someone else's) believe the writer's personality can be divined from a handwriting sample. Some have the gall to state that a certain handwriting sample indicates the writer has a malicious, unscrupulous personality (imagine if someone read that from your hand!); another graphologist might have a completely different interpretation of the same sample! It is much like psychoanalysis: overextension of metaphor. Does sloppy handwriting necessarily imply the writer is disorganized? Do "sharp"-pointed loops indicate a sarcastic personality? Graphologists can be as ridiculous as they wish because they have no legal accountability for their actions (employers hire them as outside consultants); in the UK at least, it was perfectly legal. I don't know the status of graphology and employment procedures in my home state of Missouri or elsewhere in the United States, though.



Litguy
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22 Sep 2005, 3:13 pm

hecate wrote:
Litguy wrote:
Sorry to be such a kill-joy about "science," but...it is my understanding that since the astrological chart and its implications were developed in the middle ages (when what we call astronomy and astrology were one field of study), due to the shifting of the universe and the imprecise measurements and projections of the original astrologers, the "houses" have actually shifted over one. Thus, based on the original charting and personality descriptions, people born today misidentify the house they are born in.


spoil-sport! :(
I know. Facts can really get in the way sometimes. :lol:



NeantHumain
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22 Sep 2005, 3:16 pm

Here's a hilarious example of graphology's abuse of metaphor to provide interpretations of personality in handwriting:

Space Between Lines

Quote:
The space between the lines is most probably deiberately planned. The space between the lines can be described as the picture of the writers mind.

A person who writes with wide space lines may live a life of order and system. These people have executive ability and reasonableness. But if the space between the lines becomes too wide it may indicate a person who likes to keep their distance.

Small spaces between the lines may indicate a person who likes to be around other people. Overlapping lines may indicate a person who suffers from an emotional or mental disorder. If the lower zone descends in the following lines upper zone it may indicate a person who has strong sexual impulses.

It indicates the person has strong sexual impulses because the downward portions of letters like g and p engage in coitus with letters like d and h? Now it all makes sense! :roll:

Here's another example:

Pressure in Writing
Quote:
The pressure against the paper is called primary pressure. The pressure against the penholder is called secondary pressure.

The primary pressure indicates our strength and vitality. The secondary pressure indicates our aims and inner convictions.

Primary pressure can be analyzed through the contrast between thinner upper strokes and heavier downward strokes. The task is to define between pressure produced by will and pessure produced by inhibition. Genuine pressure will appear naturally. Forced pressure looks forced and even cries out.

Extreme added pressure is often seen in hands of criminals. Pressureless writing is often seen in the hands of feminine writers.

My handwriting is very heavy. Am I a criminal? If there is any correlation at all between heavy handwriting and criminality, it is because criminals are more likely to have ADHD; and ADHD often has dysgraphia with it and poor fine motor control.



Litguy
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22 Sep 2005, 3:17 pm

ilikedragons wrote:
Im a Leo. Im nothing like a Leo.
Only a real Leo would have the self-indignation to say "I'm nothing like a Leo." :wink:



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22 Sep 2005, 3:32 pm

oi, neanthumain, you cheeky minx! this thread is NOT about graphology! ...typical scorpio! :roll:



eamonn
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22 Sep 2005, 3:43 pm

I agree with NeantHumain, i think it all boils down to human's wanting to control and caterogize. They cant handle the fact that they dont know much so it comforts them to think they know about people by boxing them in some way. There is some truth in some of these things (though not astrology imo) but they can lead to discrimination and it is worrying.

Even body language and facial expressions can be wrong. I used to get nervous if the other person thinks im lying and looks suspicious at me whether i was telling the truth or not. Mostb people tend to use that and taking a while to answer something as an indication of guilt so it ended up being just as easy to lie as tell the truth. All that needs to be done is just look unconcerned about saying it.



ilikedragons
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22 Sep 2005, 3:59 pm

What do you mean self indignation?



AbominableSnoCone
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22 Sep 2005, 4:23 pm

aspergian_mutant wrote:
secondly, it seems that if you was to change the label on most modern charts to any other sign then read outcome, hey! it sounds like it could fit you too!


I'm having a little trouble understanding what you're saying... Is it that most of the characteristics for each part is intentionally left vague enough that it could apply to just about anybody on the face of the earth? in which case I have heard it before and it does seem like that is the case.

For the record, I'm a scorpio and I have a brother, a cousin and at least one other relative born in November, I think in the general scorpio date-range.


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22 Sep 2005, 4:32 pm

i don't do vague charts. iu say things like "in this situation, you will probably respond like this, whilst in another situation, like that".

i think maybe people are taking astrology to mean daily horoscopes, which are dubious, i agree. the interpetative methods i use are very similar to those of liz greene, who uses the work of both jung and joseph campbell in her own work.



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22 Sep 2005, 6:33 pm

vetivert wrote:
LOL

tell you what, eamonn - next time you're reading my mind, let me know what you've found out, will you? - i'd pay to find out what on earth's going on in there, sometimes.


Vivi: *eyes clouded over* I see... I see some sort of abnormality... amazing strength of character... and what's this? Impure thoughts? Inuendo? And... SEX ON THE BRAIN?!?!?!

*coughs* Money please?

btw, /me still wants to know what month Scorpios are born in...


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AbominableSnoCone
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22 Sep 2005, 7:04 pm

I think its Oct 21 - Nov 21 for Scorpios but I'm not positive


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22 Sep 2005, 8:09 pm

Interesting point about 'handwriting analysis'.

In the UK, it is perfectly legal for recruiters and employers to hire bunkum artistes to divine the personalities of prospective applicants on the basis of a hand-written letter of application. From what I hear, this dubious practice is more widespead in mainstream europe. What I would say is that any employer who is crank enough to buy this sort of hokum probably will not remain in business very long anyhow.

I also appreciate the comparison between this and psychoanlaysis, which has to be the most unscientific concept to be caterorised with the word 'analysis' at its end as just about anything.

Why don't they go back to 'reading tea leaves' or something? I suppose they have all been scuppered by the remarkable advent of the Tea Bag.


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NeantHumain
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22 Sep 2005, 8:33 pm

adversarial wrote:
I also appreciate the comparison between this and psychoanlaysis, which has to be the most unscientific concept to be caterorised with the word 'analysis' at its end as just about anything.

Psychoanalysis isn't complete quackery, but it's awfully close. They were able to formulate a few good descriptions simply from extensive observation and picking up patterns. Often, their explanations (e.g., Oedipus complex—when an infant boy loves his mother sexually—resolved en route to a boy's psychosexual maturity) are nothing but conjecture, pure and simple. I think their description of ego defense mechanisms has some utility, but please no one tell me that every guy who has some sort of sexual hangup has some residual Oedipal issues! :lol:



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22 Sep 2005, 8:41 pm

NeantHumain wrote:
but please no one tell me that every guy who has some sort of sexual hangup has some residual Oedipal issues! :lol:[/b][/color]


Wait a minute. Dont you hate you're father and wish he'd leave you and you're mother alone. 8O I think you have octipus issues!