01 Apr 2008, 9:40 pm
02 Apr 2008, 4:52 pm
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
Really I think what really proves our case is Incompetent Design. I mean, really, how many things are designed well from the chaos of battle? Not many. This is why penguins can't fly, platypuses are so funny looking, and why most people are so stupid. Incompetent design theorists have been carefully analyzing all of the features of creatures and recognize that so many of them suck that an evolutionary process isn't possible. 
Penguins don't need to fly. The platypus is funny-looking because we say it is. Most people are stupid because you say they are. What you just wrote is totally ridiculous.
02 Apr 2008, 5:28 pm
slowmutant wrote:
Penguins don't need to fly. The platypus is funny-looking because we say it is. Most people are stupid because you say they are. What you just wrote is totally ridiculous.
Umm..... the entire thing was meant to be ridiculous.
02 Apr 2008, 5:59 pm
Awesomelyglorious wrote:
slowmutant wrote:
Penguins don't need to fly. The platypus is funny-looking because we say it is. Most people are stupid because you say they are. What you just wrote is totally ridiculous.
Umm..... the entire thing was meant to be ridiculous.
This is an AS forum, and a lot of us take things literally... still, you did have the wink smily at the end, which I thought made sarcasm clear enough.
02 Apr 2008, 6:16 pm
iamnotaparakeet
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Joined: 31 Jul 2007
Age: 40
Gender: Male
Posts: 25,091
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02 Apr 2008, 8:12 pm
02 Apr 2008, 9:03 pm
02 Apr 2008, 9:38 pm
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
From another thread, I wrote this:
iamnotaparakeet wrote:
Maybe the aliens would be like the ones on Event Horizon?
Or maybe the ones in That Hideous Strength?
Who would know? This is what science fiction lives off of: ignorance and speculation.
On earth for a given surface area, whether in a desert or an ocean, you shall most likely find something that is alive. Increase the surface area and you increase your chances of finding life on Earth. Can this be cogently induced to hold true for the cosmos?
Think of the factors involved with our planet:
93 million miles +/- 2% radius of orbit around a star of Sols' magnitude and composition.
Rotation of 24 hours +/- 10 minutes for even heating
23.7 degree axial tilt causing the change of seasons
Greenhouse effect to absorb solar energy
21% O2, 78% N2, 1% for all other gases which include O3 and CO2
Moon causing tides
Jupiter influencing the asteroid belt
Location away from the center of galaxy; non proximity to black holes and pulsars etcetera.
Even if a planet like ours existed, does life occur by chance?
For the simplest molecule of ribonuclease there are 124 amino acids of 17 different types arranged in a specific order. Limiting to a soup of just these 17, the odds of this molecule occurring by chance are 17^-124 or 1 out of 3.8e152.
There are proteins with more than 10,000 amino acids and more variety of them in specific order and folded precisely. What are the odds of that by random chance?
DNA and RNA take away the randomness of protein building, but how did they come about?
Paley's argument and philosophical naturalism
Finding a watch in the desert, without knowing what one is, you could come to one of two conclusions:
1. Since all of the elements in the watch are also found in the desert, you might conclude that watches naturally are formed in the desert by random collisions of sand, cactus, and tumbleweeds.
Or
2. Examining the inside of the watch you might be forced to make another conclusion; seeing the gears, spring, various mechanisms in a put together in such a way as to be statistically improbable to occur by chance, you might rightly conclude that someone designed and built the watch. From there you may even figure out its purpose of keeping time and how to operate it.
Looking at the Earth and life that exists here, with the conditions being right to support life and life itself being in so many ways advanced technology, practically nanotechnology, electronics, optics, computers, solar arrays, sensors, etc, the idea that it all came about and is currently existing without a designer, or "naturally" is ludicrous.
Why can't we make the conclusion of life and the universe having a designer? Not for lack of data, that's for sure, but because of an a priori assumption that everything occurs naturally. However, is that scientific to hold to an a priori model after it has been shown to be unsupported by the data? No, but that is what happens in the world of academia for philosophical reasons.
So, back to the question about aliens, or rather other sentient beings. Biblically God made other beings, angels. Most are good and some are malevolent, i.e. the fallen ones. Do they live on other planets? I don't think so, I think they are here. So to answer your question, I think "aliens" do exist, but they are the kind in C.S. Lewis's That Hideous Strength and the movie Event Horizon.
Or maybe the ones in That Hideous Strength?
Who would know? This is what science fiction lives off of: ignorance and speculation.
On earth for a given surface area, whether in a desert or an ocean, you shall most likely find something that is alive. Increase the surface area and you increase your chances of finding life on Earth. Can this be cogently induced to hold true for the cosmos?
Think of the factors involved with our planet:
93 million miles +/- 2% radius of orbit around a star of Sols' magnitude and composition.
Rotation of 24 hours +/- 10 minutes for even heating
23.7 degree axial tilt causing the change of seasons
Greenhouse effect to absorb solar energy
21% O2, 78% N2, 1% for all other gases which include O3 and CO2
Moon causing tides
Jupiter influencing the asteroid belt
Location away from the center of galaxy; non proximity to black holes and pulsars etcetera.
Even if a planet like ours existed, does life occur by chance?
For the simplest molecule of ribonuclease there are 124 amino acids of 17 different types arranged in a specific order. Limiting to a soup of just these 17, the odds of this molecule occurring by chance are 17^-124 or 1 out of 3.8e152.
There are proteins with more than 10,000 amino acids and more variety of them in specific order and folded precisely. What are the odds of that by random chance?
DNA and RNA take away the randomness of protein building, but how did they come about?
Paley's argument and philosophical naturalism
Finding a watch in the desert, without knowing what one is, you could come to one of two conclusions:
1. Since all of the elements in the watch are also found in the desert, you might conclude that watches naturally are formed in the desert by random collisions of sand, cactus, and tumbleweeds.
Or
2. Examining the inside of the watch you might be forced to make another conclusion; seeing the gears, spring, various mechanisms in a put together in such a way as to be statistically improbable to occur by chance, you might rightly conclude that someone designed and built the watch. From there you may even figure out its purpose of keeping time and how to operate it.
Looking at the Earth and life that exists here, with the conditions being right to support life and life itself being in so many ways advanced technology, practically nanotechnology, electronics, optics, computers, solar arrays, sensors, etc, the idea that it all came about and is currently existing without a designer, or "naturally" is ludicrous.
Why can't we make the conclusion of life and the universe having a designer? Not for lack of data, that's for sure, but because of an a priori assumption that everything occurs naturally. However, is that scientific to hold to an a priori model after it has been shown to be unsupported by the data? No, but that is what happens in the world of academia for philosophical reasons.
So, back to the question about aliens, or rather other sentient beings. Biblically God made other beings, angels. Most are good and some are malevolent, i.e. the fallen ones. Do they live on other planets? I don't think so, I think they are here. So to answer your question, I think "aliens" do exist, but they are the kind in C.S. Lewis's That Hideous Strength and the movie Event Horizon.
i think these guys'd be up for playing pretend with you.
02 Apr 2008, 9:45 pm
02 Apr 2008, 9:48 pm
02 Apr 2008, 10:11 pm
03 Apr 2008, 6:06 am
03 Apr 2008, 9:19 pm
03 Apr 2008, 10:22 pm
03 Apr 2008, 11:30 pm
