It is in YOUR best interests to sign this petition!! !

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You are denying and defending the gorilla at the same time.
Either it exists, or it does not.

guess what?

Lots of people get laid off for no reason. My father put years into his company only for them to throw him away just to save money. That's why I don't want any stupid rat-race computer job, no security at all and damn near slave-like conditions.

for you to think that its because of your AS is childish.

So, abuse for spectrumites is inherent? But who are you to say that? Who are you to say that every person on the spectrum will live a life of pain and misery unless some guardian angel is present.

Don't think by backing me into some corner, you think I'll cave in.

Did you read it?

I did and frankly, my view hasn't changed.

These are only a few cases, if you have problems at your workplace than leave, don't force people to be your social bodyguards to protect from a bunch of catty white-collar drones by the water cooler.

Also, why do you think I defend this so-called gorilla, you didn't explain that part to me.

Oh, I changed my mind, it turns out that I never needed this, therefore nobody should really need it. The fact nothing happened to me or I didn't notice should be enough proof it has not actually happened to anyone. We are machos and need to protection, plus the UN is an evil organization that intends to steal our right to do unilateral decisions that affect every other country. I also noticed the thread title said that it was in my best interest to sign it! How dare it, I am going to ask to cancel my signature since somebody telling me to do something should be a reason for me not to. Bah bye.

Various types of abuse happen to people we consider to be NT as well. The Territorial Imperative by Robert Ardrey examines the innate nature of aggression in all animals, the idea of pissing on your bush or elbowing your spot at the table predates Homo Saphiens by several million years. As far as skill levels are concerned Aspies are pretty equal to other people. Teaching Aspies how to recognize and address aggression would be a positive thing. Letting an enemy know that if they take you on the absolute best they will get is a Pyrrhic Victory is a damn good way to force them to retreat. Realistically most of the time baring your fangs will suffice. The last real scumbag of a boss I had was fired 5 months after I quit because of events I set in motion before i left, his boss two tiers above him was gone 1 month later and the company was forced to sell 13 or so months after I left. Sometimes you don't get to win, you just make sure the other guy loses. That's how life works.

I don't get where Tahitii gets this protection stuff. That book mainly dealt with dealing with the label of AS and dealing with it. Maybe she owns it and there's more in there, but I'm not going to buy a book to see where she's coming from. There are anti-discrimination laws in place, you think those would be enough, but no we have to have a guardian angel to make sure the big bad NTs don't make me feel bad.

Last edited by windscar15 on 20 Jul 2008, 1:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

I am aware that there are different levels of function within the spectrum and I do not seek to dismiss your experiences as insignificant.
I realize that probably not everyone can figure out or be taught to deal with bullies effectively, but I believe it would be better for them to at least try, even if many fail those who can do so will be better off than if they had not tried. When I have been in a position to help others I have, but that does not relieve people of the responsibility to try to take care of themselves.
I agree that such chats are good, I will not get behind a program that declares AS and LFA Autism as not a disability because they prefer to call it something other than a disability and then pull some crap like putting out this petition for special treatment. If I had not had significant impairment (read handicap, maybe not profound but a handicap) in my social interactions I would not have gotten DXed. Having dealt with this crap for so many decades I don't need AFF telling me it's not a problem because in some mythical workplace I could get accommodations for it.

I signed it because I believe in our right to be recognised as humans equal to any other human, and to receive support, and help as needed, as any other group of disabled persons would be eligible for. There is a lot of campaigning to be done, much of it done by ourselves, as there are so many issues we face. I think we are the best people to advocate for ourselves, as we know what we need.

Personally, when I was a kid, I was not terribly bullied by people my age. I figured out ways of dealing with them. It was the teachers and other adults in my life who were so abusive. And it is not just the primal thing. Children in our culture are instructed and encouraged to be more abusive than they would normally be. That is the 600 pound gorilla. The people in positions of power know what they are doing and believe that it is right. And it is more than just the normal barnyard pecking order. If you roll over and show submission, that's all the alpha-male wants. This goes beyond barbarism. It is institutionalized behavior. It is cultural.

Neither is it about motivation. No one wants to be abused. The rewards of helping yourself are intrinsic. Lectures about trying harder are pointless. That's not what's happening.

Specific instruction can be helpful for some people. Special educators have figured that out and are doing it, although I do not know how common or effective this is.

That would not have helped me. I have learned all of the learnable skills. In fact, I suspect that this is part of my problem now. I do everything right that you can name, but I am still missing something at a level that no one will name. They won't name it, but they will fire me for it.

My best was around the age of thirty or thirty-five. I am still processing and trying to figure out why my employment situation has gotten worse. But it's certainly not about learning new tricks or trying harder. I've done it all. (PS: Snarling at my supervisor does not work, and neither does complaining to her boss. Been there, done that too.)

What you offer me now is what they offer to children, which is a “carrot on a stick.” That if I could just do this or that, they will stop punishing me. It was never true, but they tried to pretend. I did what they said they wanted me to do, and my success only made them more angry. I left them no room to play, "gotcha," and that really pissed them off.

Today, in my adult situations, they don't even bother to pretend. The truth is that they are not punishing me for any particular behavior, but just because I am me.

I do not want "special treatment," any more than women or black people did. I want the opposite of "special treatment." I want to be an equal and to find steady employment. I want protection from institutionalized discrimination. That is the 600 pound gorilla. It's not just primal. It is culture. It is learned, and can therefore be unlearned.

You're right. I don't know why that other link didn't work. This link gives a couple of stories, but I can’t find the explanation part that came later. This is really annoying.
http://www.jkp.com/catalogue/book.php/e ... 1843108467

Anyway, it makes the point that it's not just the kids, but the authority figures who are the problem. The protection stuff is my response to the existence of this problem. It is cultural, not primal. It is a learned prejudice.


The actual laws only cover specified groups. It’s the same old song and you might expect people to figure it out, but they don't.


Yes, as individuals and as parents, we are the best advocates. And the group answers are somewhere in that direction. However, as this thread shows, we are not all in agreement on what the problems are and on what we need. So, what we need to do is talk and figure it out, so that we are all on the same page. Page one: what is really happening? Page two: what can we do? If you fear the consequences of any action, one response would be to deny the existence of the situation in the first place.

"Don't do that! You'll make ‘us’ all look bad and/or get us into trouble and/or and make the problem worse. Therefore, there is no 'us' and there is no problem."

Sound familiar? Other groups have had this same argument in the past. That argument wouldn't even come up if we were not an oppressed group. Saying it shows that you know the gorilla is real, and that it is a tyrant to be feared. The argument is self-contradictory.

Whether or not acknowledging it and complaining about it will make it worse is another question, to be determined only after you acknowledge the problem.

"windscar15" does not want to believe me and wants to try for his “carrot” anyway. Good luck with that. It might actually work. I would imagine that the geekier industries would be more accepting.

So in order to get what I want, I have to take your side?

first of all, I already made the point of not wanting anyone to decide things for me.
Second, you contradicted yourself by saying you want equality by getting special protection.

Your logic keeps getting more and more labyrinthine. So, apparently, You want to change an ingrained behavior that is present in almost all cultures in the world, that way, all of the abuse will magically go away. That makes as much sense as Al Gore. I also hate how you make me seem like the bad guy for not understanding a word of what you're saying. Look, psychobabble doesn't convince me.

I don't know about or care about your individual situation, nor should I or anyone else be forced to. If you have career problems, tough, not my problem, I have enough problems myself.

I'm not attracted to geekier industries, where exactly did that come from?
Please explain things in plain english, or was this in plain english?

Simon Baron-Cohen is a great person.

Sorry for offending so many people with the title. I thought the title was good, as I would think that nobody likes the idea of a cure being shoved down their throat. But, all I seem to be good at doing is offending people. If I could rename it, I would.

I believe that AS/autism is a variation that doesn't have to be cured. I'm not an aspergian egotist. Egotism in all its forms drives me up the wall. I believe that everyone on the face of this earth is equal, regardless of any factors that are beyond their control.

All I know is that my whole life I've been mistreated for being myself. Nobody at my school wants anything to do with me- that is, until a history test comes around. Then they treat as if I were their Messiah. And, despite, the fact that asperger's has caused me a lot of pain in my life, it as also given me many positive things. Positive things I would never trade in.

And I wasn't trying to be a dictator with anything regarding the link or the title (I already put up with enough of those types, thank you). I just thought the idea of being a recongnized minority internationally would give some people on the spectrum some peace of mind. I did not mean to get personal, and I sincerely apologize if I offended anyone. It might be kinda late, but that's because I've been busy with family issues.

You didn't offend me at all Hurricaneseye.

I didn't have a problem with the title or your OP.

Many of us have gotten used to arguing strongly for one position or another on this forum. I have a thick skin and I am sure you will find lots of people to get along with on this forum. No part of my posts were pointing at you specifically as an Aspie Supremacist and I have not seen you advocate that position.
You just happened to post something you believe in that I don't, I have no hard feelings and I hope you don't dwell too much on this or continue to kick yourself in the butt, neither of thes things will do you any good.

Well, thanks for apologizing, that was good, its a lot more civil than some people I know of.