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Kansas school board redefines science

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spacemonkey
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09 Nov 2005, 12:22 am

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Apparently the University of California at Berkeley has declared that they will refuse to grant credit for high school biology courses that teach Intelligent Design.


That's interesting. You know you never hear of a college teaching this stuff. It's always some local schoolboard trying to plant the seeds of delusion into impressionable adolescents.


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Endersdragon
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09 Nov 2005, 12:29 am

AbominableSnoCone wrote:
kevv729 wrote:
We have remember science is just theories even theories get debunked or expanded over time. We are Living in a great technology age where there are more theories out there that try to explain it all. Science may explain it well but the more it explains the more questions We as a Society have. Even God might have created evolution We just don't know. We must remember science can not explain everything in the most minute way, for it is just theories.


Yes, but there is SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to support evolution, LOTS AND LOTS of it. There is a tiny 0.1% chance that the theory of evolution will be debunked someday but it is one of the most well supported scientific theories out there today! There is NO SCIENTIFIC EVIDENCE to support the theory of "Intelligent Design" so we should not be teaching that 'theory' in our SCIENCE classes!


What about the theory that I discussed, have you ever seen a tornado go through a lumberyard and build a house? Ever heard of the 2nd law of thermodynamics? Was there not a time when Bohrs model of the atom stood a .1% chance of being debunked.


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ghotistix
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09 Nov 2005, 12:34 am

The tornado-in-a-lumberyard metaphor would really only apply to evolution if the tornado hung around for a billion years, and the only parts that "stuck" were the ones which would directly contribute to a better house.



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09 Nov 2005, 12:37 am

ghotistix wrote:
The tornado-in-a-lumberyard metaphor would really only apply to evolution if the tornado hung around for a billion years, and the only parts that "stuck" were the ones which would directly contribute to a better house.


Well then what about the entire law that states "every spontanous reaction increase entropy in the universe" doesnt a bunch of atoms coming together defy that the theary (same thing with the big bang theory)


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kevv729
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09 Nov 2005, 12:39 am

Can anybody debunk tha even God could have created evolution. There is a thread on this I have created on this subject PP&R. May be that would be a better place for this debate.

ghotistix

The vast majority of Americans would not allow a THEORCRACY to form in America so come on.

The University of California at Berkeley is jumping the gun I think abit. Even if it is taught then such universities are being closed minded and can not handle any such beliefs to its HIGHER EDUCATION then I am scared. America is a country of Ideals that is what makes us great.

AbominableSnoCone

SCIENCTIFIC EVIDENCE may support Evolution but do we know how it truly began.


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AbominableSnoCone
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09 Nov 2005, 12:41 am

Endersdragon wrote:
What about the theory that I discussed, have you ever seen a tornado go through a lumberyard and build a house?

Well lets say that there are 5 quadrillion planets in the universe (which is a number I just made up for the sake of argument)
If 5 quadrillioin tornadoes went through 5 quadrillion lumberyards wouldn't it be possible that just one of them happened to construct a house?

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Ever heard of the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

I don't think the creation of life has anything to do with (or contradicts in anyway) the ever-increasing entropy in the universe.

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Was there not a time when Bohrs model of the atom stood a .1% chance of being debunked.


Yeah, but that was debunked by REAL SCIENCE


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AbominableSnoCone
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09 Nov 2005, 12:42 am

kevv729 wrote:
AbominableSnoCone

SCIENCTIFIC EVIDENCE may support Evolution but do we know how it truly began.


Oh no, we don't and I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea that God created evolution :)


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ghotistix
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09 Nov 2005, 12:50 am

kevv729 wrote:
Can anybody debunk tha even God could have created evolution.

The more important question is, can anyone prove that God could have created evolution? I'd love to hear any evidence.

kevv729 wrote:
The University of California at Berkeley is jumping the gun I think abit. Even if it is taught then such universities are being closed minded and can not handle any such beliefs to its HIGHER EDUCATION then I am scared. America is a country of Ideals that is what makes us great.

Why are they jumping the gun? Because they don't have any use for students who have been trained to ignore important parts of science instead of learning them? I'd say they're showing foresight.



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09 Nov 2005, 12:55 am

ghotistix

Can You show the processes of evolution and how it truly got started from the beginning.

They are not even teaching yet Intelligent Design in the schools of Kansas.


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ghotistix
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09 Nov 2005, 1:06 am

kevv729 wrote:
Can You show the processes of evolution and how it truly got started from the beginning.

The 1953 Miller-Urey experiment gives one explanation for the origin of life.
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The Miller-Urey experiment (or Urey-Miller experiment) was an experiment that simulated hypothetical conditions present on the early Earth and tested for the occurrence of chemical evolution (the Oparin and Haldane hypothesis stated that conditions on the primitive Earth favored chemical reactions that synthesized organic compounds from inorganic precursors; the Miller-Urey tested this hypothesis). The experiment is considered to be the classic experiment on the origin of life. It was conducted in 1953 by Stanley L. Miller and Harold C. Urey at the University of Chicago.


If you want to know the mechanics behind evolution that followed from that...
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution

In biology, evolution is the process by which populations of organisms acquire and pass on novel traits from generation to generation, affecting the overall makeup of the population and even leading to the emergence of new species.

The development of the modern theory of evolution began with the introduction of the concept of natural selection in a joint 1858 paper by Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace. This theory achieved a wider readership in Darwin's 1859 book, The Origin of Species. Darwin and Wallace proposed that evolution occurs because a heritable trait that increases an individual's chance of successfully reproducing will become more common, by inheritance, from one generation to the next, and likewise a heritable trait that decreases an individual's chance of reproducing will become rarer. This work was groundbreaking, and overturned other evolutionary theories, such as that advanced by Jean Baptiste Lamarck.

In the 1930s, scientists combined Darwinian natural selection with the re-discovered theory of Mendelian heredity to create the modern synthesis, now one of the fundamental scientific theories of biology. In the modern synthesis, "evolution" is defined as a change in the frequency of alleles within a population from one generation to the next. This change may be caused by different mechanisms, including natural selection, genetic drift, or changes in population structure (gene flow).


kevv729 wrote:
They are not even teaching yet Intelligent Design in the schools of Kansas.

They're certainly going to try.



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09 Nov 2005, 1:07 am

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I don't think the creation of life has anything to do with (or contradicts in anyway) the ever-increasing entropy in the universe.


Okay then let me spell it out for you, a bunch of elements coming together to form an organizism is a spontanous reaction decreasing the entropy in the universe, therefore is impossible.


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09 Nov 2005, 1:31 am

My belief on all this is that evolution is one of the laws God uses to control the universe and create things on this planet (and others too, I'm sure - the probabilites are SOOOO against us being the only ones)

But I thought this was funny - I saw a written piece online that was saying that Intelligent Design people were using the fact that in 'March of the Penguins' the penguins were monogamous to promote Intelligent Design - this article pointed out that they are monogomous for a season not for life and also that there are several scenes of them allowing their chicks to be eaten for the good of the group (a full predator is no longer a threat) . . .



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09 Nov 2005, 1:37 am

Endersdragon wrote:
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I don't think the creation of life has anything to do with (or contradicts in anyway) the ever-increasing entropy in the universe.


Okay then let me spell it out for you, a bunch of elements coming together to form an organizism is a spontanous reaction decreasing the entropy in the universe, therefore is impossible.

How does it decrease entropy? Spontaneous processes happen all the time.



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09 Nov 2005, 1:46 am

kevv729 wrote:
The University of California at Berkeley is jumping the gun I think abit. Even if it is taught then such universities are being closed minded and can not handle any such beliefs to its HIGHER EDUCATION then I am scared. America is a country of Ideals that is what makes us great.


But that's the thing, kevv729, science is not about beliefs, it is about the evidence and facts. If you want to discuss Intelligent Design as a possible truth, save it for a theology or philosophy class, not a science class.

ghotistix already mentioned this, but just to emphasise again:

The Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with the origin of life, it is about what happened after life began.



kevv729
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09 Nov 2005, 1:50 am

ghotistix

We may show maybe how life began Miller-Urey experiment is hypothical at best We will never truly know. We don't truly yet understand even how Life began. Science maybe good trying to explain it but You got to remember we are the ones doing the science. What caused these elements to FORM LIFE. That is my QUESTION HERE. What would what to make it form life in the end. They never have YET CREATED LIFE THIS WAY TRULY LIVING LIFE.

So how do You not know that God did not create LIFE.


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Bec
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09 Nov 2005, 2:24 am

kevv729 wrote:
What caused these elements to FORM LIFE. That is my QUESTION HERE. What would what to make it form life in the end. They never have YET CREATED LIFE THIS WAY TRULY LIVING LIFE.

So how do You not know that God did not create LIFE.


Those questions ARE NOT the questions that evolutionary science is trying answer. I said that in my previous post.

Evolutionary biologists don't know how life began, because frankly, they don't care how life began. That is not what they are trying to figure out. Evolution is about the process of going from single cell organisms into humans, NOT how single cell organisms came into being.