my argument against atheism

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Christians see God as "He" he being male. Sometimes Jesus IS God...
Muslims see God the correct way, I asked my Muslim friend a few questions and was surprised what she told me about the answer.

Christians and Muslims see God differently. Christians have a habit of trying to encourage me to take up the religion (not all, but the references they make, just makes me want to avoid them), Muslims do not encourage others to follow the religion.

I find it very strange that people assume non-believers are somehow defined by their absence of belief. I am a non-golfer, a non-stamp collector, a non-investor in Wall Street, a non-fisherman, a non-bricklayer etc. but I don't feel myself defined by any of these. I find religious people slightly nuts. Of course there are some insane people that are quite nice otherwise but that's another matter.

I was just referring to how they see God as a divine creator not what he was describing, and for the most part that's the most used definition.

No problem

Quick poating before bed: I use the God of the various religions, I read about. There are various issues with them: Theodiz´ee, why are there still insects if people are supposed to improve their Karma, and so on. No higher being can change the rules of logic (argument from personal lack of imagination, I know, but scripture does not suggest it). These issues and the invariable logic make it very unlikely that a higher being exists.

I call myself an atheist despite not being sure that a higher being exists. Even Dawkins (argument from authority, I know :p ) uses the 'very unlikely definition.

Not necessarily... It goes back to the rational vs fundamentalist split in all forms of ideology: The fundamentalist will see their way as the only way, and anyone else who doesn't follow that way is wrong, while more rational mainstream movements will try to establish dialogues with other ideologies to try and come to some common ground... Fundamentalist muslims (i.e. ones that keep chanting "Death to America" and stuff like that, fundamentalist christians keep going on about homosexuality and aboriton even though Jesus had more important teachings in mind like "love thy neighbor", fundamentalist jews have their whole Zionism thing going on, and fundamentalist athiests keep rattling that anyone who has the capacity to believe in something that cannot be scientifically tested is mentally deficient...

I have more Muslim friends than I do Christian. The views of my Muslim friends are fascinating when I can stand to talk about it, they talk about their religion about as much as I can handle. Christians go way over the top in my experience, and talk about their religion to the extremes
(I know many Christians are different, but this is my experience with them)
That's right, none of my friends are Christian. If they are then they are the best ones I've found. I have friends that chose to give up religion for some reason and found their life better without it. Strange world

disclaimer: following is my belief, and not intended to be promoted as fact or truth

It's impossible to believe in a personal creator god and difficult to believe 'god' is ALWAYS conscious of itself (RARELY would be more accurate). Also the term 'permanent' is preferable to the term 'unchanging', though both terms should be specifically defined. Everything that exists has always existed and will always exist (the attribute of 'permanence'), yet everything is transmuting and will apparently recombine and/or take on different forms (the attribute of change). Linear explanations don't apply i.e., there is no beginning and no end, no birth and no death, no moment of creation and no moment of extinction (optical or perceptual illusions). Both/and thinking more appropriate than either/or. Paradoxes DO apply. It's difficult for western oriented monotheists (Abrahamic religions Judaism, Christianity, Islam - with exception of Sufis) to understand this.


what is the god you do believe in --- god = the totality of everything in every existing dimension, time space and other
what is the god you don't believe in --- the requirement that god be a personal creator god and/or be always conscious of itself

what's A god --- such gods (plural, multiple gods) are beings having evolved to a significant level (should be defined) beyond the average human consciousness, and possibly no longer living or never living on planet Earth ... who tend to identify themselves with the totality as in 'nothing in particular' as opposed to being a 'person'. Not wishing to offend but these 'gods' have also been called masters, types of christ, saviors or spiritual guides - and as such are not empirically equal to the totality (i.e., god as defined above).

Jesus explained God to us..

"No man has seen God at any time; the only-begotten god who is in the bosom position with the Father is the one that has explained him." - John 1:18

"He that does not love has not come to know God, because God is love." - 1John 4:8





A supernatural being.. that acts contrary to nature.






The Supreme Spirit.. in mankind.

The spirit of.. loving kindness.. righteousness.. justice.. peace.. wisdom.. truth.. and freedom....

Existing not in the heavens.. but in hearts and minds.

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"But let the one bragging about himself brag about himself because of this very thing, the having of insight and the having of knowledge of me, that I am God, the One exercising loving-kindness, justice and righteousness in the earth; for in these things I do take delight," is the utterance of God." - Jeremiah 9:24

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“They have not known, and they do not understand; In darkness they keep walking about; All the foundations of the earth are made to totter.

I myself have said, 'You are gods, And all of you are sons of the Most High.”

Psalms 82:5


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That's what I've been saying all along.

Well this is makeing me think what if god is even a organism, He is probably above things like that, we can only fill the blanks with what we see everyday, and by that we may be completly wrong.

Drugs are false happiness, whether pharma or narco. Religion brings genuine happiness to millions worldwide.

Depends which religion. Buddhists are generally extremely at peace with themselves and are what you could consider happy while born again christians are mostly miserable deep down inside and you can see that. But no matter which way you turn it, it's all false happiness, if you pick a faith you'd have to be delusional to deny that there's an extremely large chance your faith is wrong, not to mention by having that faith you're claiming your faith is right and everyone else's is wrong. There are thousands of faiths, to lack even slight doubt in your own would be delusional.

which is why i'm technically an agnostic. a non-theistic agnostic but that's more because i choose to not acknowledge any established religion's deity seeing as their definitions fail (hence, their gods don't exist).

I was a fervent rabid athiest in my younger days.

Then I realized I can't support those views either.

So now I define myself as an agnostic.

You don't know, I don't know...... none of us knows the answer, and if I'm right and god doesn't exist, then none of us will ever find out.

Anthropomorphism of god to give him qualities we'd like him to have is evident in most of the major religions because their very definitions of God are contradictory. The god's they present are not capable of existence because they contradict themselves.

The burden of proof is on the one proclaiming the existence or non-existence of the deity. Since I have no proof to provide that the spontaneous creation of god (who then creates the universe) is just as likely as the spontaneous creation of the universe, I stand outside the discussion and just laugh at the people debating it now, throw in a monkey wrench on occasion to liven things up.

By being an agnostic, I have pushed the burden of proof to the believers, because I deny that knowledge is possible, or that faith is adequate.

Positing the existence of God just pushes the mystery of creation one step back. Because apperently God can spring forth from nothing and *then* create the universe, but it's not believable for the universe to spring into existence on it's own. It takes either a small mind or a fervent desire to believe life has meaning other then what we create ourselves to accept the logic neccesary to say that the universe had to be created by god because someone had to create it.

All of that said, I think religion can be a positive force in some people's lifes, I just wish the practicioners would stay true to the message and not preach hatred or discrimination. Standing over the abyss of a universe that has no meaning but that which *you* give it is a difficult and precarious position to find oneself. I don't believe most people are courageous enough to face that without some belief that the things they do have a purpose, and that there is a reason to ascribe to the moral code outside of self interest and continued stability of the species.

You deny that faith is adequate? That's interesting.