Since when did this place became all debate and troll happy?

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~sigh~ and people feeding the trolls makes my job harder and harder.

gee, thanks, guys.

Merle

You're welcome.

If we feed them, they'll just keep coming back... but hey, at least they mostly just come to places like PPR. Actually, we don't really have a huge troll problem even in PPR. I mean, there's Zyborg, but I think he just has some extremely bizarre beliefs rather than actually being a troll. Most of the legitimate "trolls" that have taken up residence in PPR have long since been banned, often over the protests of other members who were entertained by their antics.

Aspies are typically the ones who come to this forum, not that it matters that much, and well, educated or uneducated, I don't see that much difference between the two to be honest, and the issue about their behaviour in web-forums goes beyond that aspect, which doesn't seem to be significant.

That's a good question, what's wrong with it?

I wish everyone would heed Sinsboldy's words; if you really believe someone is a troll, do not respond to them in any thread and contact a moderator with your concerns so they can deal with the matter.

There is only one constructive response to trolls, and that is banning them. It is obvious then that only moderators can respond constructively and appropriately to trolls, so it is also obvious that the only constructive thing anyone but moderators can do about trolls, is to inform moderators about the problem; meanwhile do not feed anyone you suspect is a troll. Just ignore them if you really think they are a troll.

I do not feel comfortable with individual members taking the role of "troll" investigator, prosecutor and executor on themselves. I think it should be left to those directly accountable to, and empowered (to respond constructively) by the site owner via the role of moderator. In fact, I think "troll hunting" by non-moderators can cause more disruption than any potential actual trolling could or would if people just responded by ignoring anyone they think is a troll (or at least ignoring the postings they believe were only posted to provoke or personally attack others), while informing moderators of their concerns.

Sometimes it is difficult to tell the difference between a troll and someone with very strong beliefs. Recent posts on PPR along the lines of "REPENT YOUR SINS AND BELIEVE IN JESUS OR GO TO HELL" type statements seem very troll like to me. At first I thought they were posted by trolls, especially since they were worded as "emo" sound bites and the poster seems unwilling or unable to express any articulate arguments in favour of their assertions. Others them lambaste the assertions of the poster - are they the trolls? Troll or not a troll - sometimes the distinction is not clear.

Which is all the more reason why members should not call each other trolls in open posting, but if they think someone is trolling should simply PM a moderator with their concerns.

I agree members should not call each others trolls in open posting. However, I think the mods would soon get fed up of being notified about every wacko poster who may or may not be a troll just because their posts were weird, extreme or irrational.

i do not understand fully why there is a worry about so called "trolls".
what is the EXACT meaning of "troll"?
to me, it is someone who casts a contentious comment into a group of people and wants to see them react.
it implies some sort of "social experiment". i am fine with that.
trolls can not reamain trolls for long, because they either evaporate after they get bored, or they assimilate because they are become fond of the site they started out trolling in.
there are some people i am sure that start out with the intention of being "trolls".
if they persist for more than 100 posts, i usually notice that they start to contribute in a beneficial way to threads, and replace their initial disruptive motives with motives of joining in because they like the responses they got as a troll from people who were nice to them even though they were a troll .

i think they think "wow! i came here to stir up trouble in a pack of goons, and now i actually identify with them and want to be friends with them"

i think "give trolls a chance". i have seen even recently, some new people that started out as outrageously ridiculous, who have now nestled themselves back into a more co operative and supportive way of posting.


in real life, at taverns (pubs really) where i eat , i have had people sit next to me while i am working on some ideas, and openly deride me.

i have a friend at the moment who started as a real life troll.
he sat next to me while i was scribbling some designs and he took my paper and said "writin' letters to the aliens are you mate?" and he looked at me with a pretend look of interest, and then i noticed a few men in the pool table area near by start to laugh.
i realized they must have been looking at me for a while and thought i was a total freak scribbling things in different colored pens as i waited for my food.
the person who sat down beside me was the "brave" one that was going to provide his mates with amusement by soliciting "moronic" comments from me.
when he asked about whether i was writing to aliens, i said "i may as well be, you have my paper". he seemed to be ok with my answer and he looked at the paper and said "well what does it mean mate?"
i said "i am waiting for dinner and i was thinking of tornados and i then started thinking of vortices"
he seemed to become more friendly and asked what the swirly lines were all about, and i explained.
his friends were laughing nearby, and he told them to shut up.
he said "you're ok mate" which was no news to me, but he never the less started out to try and humiliate me for his own ego boosting purpose (witnessed by his friends), and at the end he felt protective of me against his friends. he said to me quietly before he left "don't worry mate..they're all small minded pr*cks".

after that time, he has came and sat with me on many occasions when i eat, and he is an OK person.
but i can not let him come to my place as i do not like him enough.

anyway, the moral is, if you treat a troll nicely, that troll may stop being a troll and settle in.
they may look like a troll at first because they are so defensive that they fire shots at you to make you hate them (so they can say they controlled peoples hate of them), and when you do not hate them, they feel silly for being trolls.

sorry i have written a lot of code today and i can not quite come out into human conversation tonight. it is 12:20am and i am tired and i am not going to proof read anything.

It's because many people can't control their emotions, and so find it easier for a moderator to suppress what's annoying them, rather than them simply just ignoring it.

Troll (n):

1) One who tries to catch fish by dragging bait through the water.

2) One who tries to attract attention - whether friendly or hostile - by expressing controversial views in a public forum.

3) One who disagrees with a preferred opinion.

4) One who bases his or her claims on traceable and valid facts rather than apocryphal myths of questionable origins.

actually, that is not even close to what we look for, ascan. It will never do to disseminate non factual information.

this is the definition of a troll that I use, B9.
troll:
Posting derogatory messages about sensitive subjects on newsgroups and chat rooms to bait users into responding.

as you can see it has nothing to do with emotions, nor suppression. It is about those that seek only dissension and disruption, hoping to manipulate one member against the other, rather than furthering discussion and unity within the community.

WP is fortunate, because trolls are dealt with by that same community long before the moderators step in. And then, those same members send a quick PM to our growing number of moderators and poof. . .gone!

I hope that helps you understand why trolls or trolling are not allowed on WP, B9.

Merle

i never said it had anything to do with emotion or suppression. i think you are responding to "ascan" only maybe. i do not endorse what people who reply to me say until i judge it, and i have not judged it yet.

if what i wrote in my preceding post was wrong, then please delete it if you think it should be deleted.
you are a better judge than me.
i do not wish to create contention.

I disagree.
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Oops, thought I was in PPR for a moment there.

I am going to amend myself.

Yesterday I was in a silly mood.

But there probably has been a point buried in my responses. Not so much to the poster to which I was responding, since no doubt he already knows it - and chooses to prey upon it, but in general. And that point is:

Having an education, and having a good life, does not make one immune from what can be seen as human weaknesses and human failings.

That, basically, says it all.

But it does make one better equipped to handle those weaknesses and failings - or at least compensate more efficiently for them - than would being an ignorant, uneducated bum.