Scientists Debunk themselves into a corner

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kokopelli
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03 Jun 2025, 8:09 pm

cyberdora wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

I know someone from Cuba who I worked with for about 15 years who liked to talk about how the sea floor off of Cuba suddenly dropped off into the abyss. He said that you could be swimming out with a scuba mask and suddenly find yourself looking at something like a wall that went down and down and down and down.

Interesting how close Florida was to the Yucatan before sea level rises.

It's hard to tell from the chart because the continental shelf goes down deeper than the lowest sea level. I'm not sure how far, though. You probably are right that Florida and the Yucatan were much closer than they are today.

What might be surprising is that Florida and Cuba weren't much closer then than it is today.

The marker is in Key West, Florida. So 90 miles to Cuba. In that image, you can see the Florida keys as they stretch down and to the left. Key West isn't far at all from the end of the Continental Shelf. I wonder how far to Cuba it was during the lowest sea levels. Maybe 75 or 80 miles? I don't know.

cyberdora
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04 Jun 2025, 2:43 am

^^^ Probably enough for makeshift craft to go back and forth

kokopelli
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04 Jun 2025, 3:37 am

Don't the earliest signs of mankind in Cuba date from about 6,000 years ago? So higher sea levels, not lower.

Did those earliest inhabitants of Cuba arrive from Florida or from the Yucatan or maybe from South America?

cyberdora
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04 Jun 2025, 4:17 am

^^^ According gen AI
Guanahatabey and Ciboney people, likely originated from migrations from northern South America or Central America into Cuba. These migrations occurred around 6,000 years ago, coinciding with extinctions of native fauna.

kokopelli
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04 Jun 2025, 1:46 pm

cyberdora wrote:

^^^ According gen AI
Guanahatabey and Ciboney people, likely originated from migrations from northern South America or Central America into Cuba. These migrations occurred around 6,000 years ago,

That wouldn't be surprising.

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coinciding with extinctions of native fauna.

Huh?

cyberdora
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04 Jun 2025, 4:52 pm

kokopelli wrote:

Quote:

coinciding with extinctions of native fauna.

Huh?

Archaelogists use mass extinction events with the arrival of H.Sapiens.
For example Neanderthals has a strong reliance on Mammoth and H.Sapiens arrival spelt the end of both mammoth and Neanderthal around 30-40 thousand yrs ago.

kokopelli
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04 Jun 2025, 5:52 pm

cyberdora wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

Quote:

coinciding with extinctions of native fauna.

Huh?

What is the evidence for there being a mass extinction event about 2,000 to 3,000 years ago in South America during which there was a wave of migrants into Cuba?

cyberdora
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04 Jun 2025, 11:54 pm

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 0Europeans.

kokopelli
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05 Jun 2025, 2:46 pm

Oddly enough, whoever wrote those "highlights" made a really big blooper. He doesn't know the difference between one year and a thousand years.

1500 ka is not 1,500 years. It is 1,500,000 years.

We are obviously using vastly different definitions of of "mass extinction". One island losing a number of large species over a period of a couple of thousand years is not a "mass extinction". There have not been very many mass extinctions in the history of the Earth.

I was giving you the benefit in referring to a massive loss of species in South America but it turns out you only meant a loss of species on an island. Just out of curiosity, what were the species that went extinct, when did they go extinct, and why did they go extinct?

cyberdora
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05 Jun 2025, 4:22 pm

kokopelli wrote:

We are obviously using vastly different definitions of of "mass extinction". One island losing a number of large species over a period of a couple of thousand years is not a "mass extinction". There have not been very many mass extinctions in the history of the Earth.

According to the net, there have been two sets of peopling
6000 Yrs ago
1500 Yrs ago - Taino

the Taino/Arawak speakers are the best known for not just killing many animal species but also the previous population. Happens elsewhere, the Australian aborigines and new Zealand Māori and Caribs of Hispaniola/Cuba. Matter of fact Indo-European speakers did this when they swept into Europe, changing both the animal flora and eliminated all males across the entire continent

kokopelli
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05 Jun 2025, 4:32 pm

cyberdora wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

How long did it take them to eliminate all males across Europe? They were both there for at least five thousand years, weren't they?

cyberdora
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06 Jun 2025, 1:48 am

^^^ Fascinating story in DNA of all Europeans
Y chromosome of modern European males shows almost no contribution of paleolithic males, but lots of mitochondrial DNA from palaeolithic females.

translation: war bands comprising of horse riding Yamnaya men (from the Russian Steppe) entered western Europe, killing all the men and enslaving the women.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... cient-dna/

we live with the legacy today

kokopelli
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06 Jun 2025, 2:33 am

Are you claiming that these were homo sapiens killing the neanderthal men?

cyberdora
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06 Jun 2025, 4:29 am

kokopelli wrote:

Are you claiming that these were homo sapiens killing the neanderthal men?

No palaeolithic Europeans were the ones who built all the megaliths Like Gobleke tepe, Malta and Stone Henge
they looked like Cheddar man

funeralxempire
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06 Jun 2025, 4:46 am

cyberdora wrote:

For starters, it only applies to ~2/3rds of European and Middle Eastern men, according to another article.

They don't need to literally kill them, when all that's required is for all other men's lineages to die out. This doesn't need to occur all at once in the dramatic fashion you describe.

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One might speculate that, if a male elite was established with the advantages of Yamnaya culture, along with a paternal ancestry from a very few Yamnaya and/or European Y lineages, they could have monopolised women and had children with a large number of partners. Over many generations, this could lead to those lineages becoming extremely widespread. In fact, similar inferences have previously been made for the situation when Neolithic farmers first arrived.

Basically, founder effect resulting from reproduction being dominated by related males all carrying the same Y haplotype.

I know portraying this change that occurred over many generations as a massive genocide is far more appealing narratively, but that doesn't make it true. That's not to suggest that mass slaughters didn't occur in that period, only that it would have seemed like a steady transition, rather than an abrupt shift.

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cyberdora
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06 Jun 2025, 4:59 am

funeralxempire wrote:

I know portraying this change that occurred over many generations as a massive genocide is far more appealing narratively, but that doesn't make it true. That's not to suggest that mass slaughters didn't occur in that period, only that it would have seemed like a steady transition, rather than an abrupt shift.

we weren't there... If the Nazis could do it barely one generation ago, then fairly sure the Yamnaya happily slaughtered all...DNA is hard to dispute.

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