Should eradicating autism be a hate crime?

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Fair enough. '

Was just putting it there as a source for the iatrogenic death figure.

Allow me to explain my position.

I'm being criticised for calling Zendell and Le Kiwi "dangerous". It's seen as an unacceptable characterisation. In this case I just don't get that at all - and here's why.

For a number of years now, we as a community (the Autistic community I mean, not Wrong Planet in particular) have been battling to be understood - and accepted as who we are. The key to this is the acceptance that we are not diseased and needing to be "cured". Remember that this scenario is what this thread is all about - hate crime. Seeking a cure is a part of the subject matter of this thread.

Now - part of the problem is this ridiculous suggestion that vaccines cause Autism. I'm not talking about environmental triggers - that needs a genetic base, so no problem. I'm talking about original creation (ie a disease).

Zendell's argument seems based on this - as the studies that he or she links to proves. Now the danger lies in the fact that these studies delay or stop the understanding we are all seeking - and allows the dangerous BS (cure) to slip into the dispute and muddy already confusing waters. Now I don't know about the rest of you, but one thing I hate is being confused. Especially if that confusion (and I'm not specifying this dispute here) is caused deliberately.

Zendell might not believe the information is confusing - that's fine. But in the spirit of tolerance, it must be understood that by providing those links, he or she is causing confusion and therefore angst to others. And the backlash comes (and not just from me). Zendell is yet to acknowledge this - to my knowledge, hence (and this is my opinion) the danger.

Le Kiwi comes from the anti vax crew. Now I'll admit this issue is only loosely related to Autism, and for that reason in that context alone I don't see why the issue should be discussed. But when other contexts come up (such as the Hannon Poling case) inevitably Le Kiwi comes up with a study that generalises the issue of vaccinations, so that her own view is supported. Again - this causes confusion, particularly when it comes to the already proven fact that thiomersal has nothing to do with Autism (whether it's mentioned or not). Additionally - if Le Kiwi tried what she is pursuing in Australia she would get into a lot more trouble than she would in New Zealand. Why? Because the view is dangerous. That's not me saying that as original thought. That's me passing on the thoughts of my government - via policy and law.

In closing - I'll admit that this explanation might confuse matters even more for some people. I'll cop that. It's a complicated issue all round. My point is that certainly my own tolerance lines do not extend favourably to such situations. I don't like being confused - and I don't like seeing other people confused as well. Likewise I don't like seeing anger. No one does I would have thought. I will say in my defence that anything I have said that was out of line was provoked by either Zendell or Le Kiwi. They have caused me a large amount of angst, and the views they have presented in this forum are a part of the problem that all of us on the Spectrum face every day.

Disrespect of the Autistic culture.

I hope that answers any outstanding questions anyone has.

The point is the difference between discussing the issues and discussing other members and their position on the issues. For example, "ridiculous suggestion," is chosen to ridicule another member.

I would not be on your case so much except that this is not an isolated incident. Other members have complained about your... edginess. Moderators have expressed concerns. You make people feel uncomfortable about posting their views here when they may be different from yours. In effect you succeed at censoring views that are different from yours, and that's dangerous to all communities.

TLPG, my problem is that you continually slander and label myself (and Zendell) as being dangerous, deliberately obtuse, nasty, vicious, a threat to public health, etc etc. You turn to character attacks to try and get your point across, and that simply isn't on. As much as you might disagree with my opinions, this is a public forum and a dicussion board - that means discussion will come up on various subjects, and sometimes you simply won't agree with what other people say. Welcome to the real world, that's just the way it goes sometimes.

But despite what you believe, I will continue to post my opinions, as I'm sure you will. I will not be censored simply because someone else disagrees with what I say - I disagree with what you say, but does that mean I ask you to censor what you say because 'it's dangerous'? No. Because I know and accept that people have different opinions than I do, and even if I do disagree with them I would fight like hell for you to have the right to express them.

To make this clear, the distinction is thus - other people who've been active in this discussion, such as Pepperfire and Lau, disagree with what I say and make clear that they do so. However, they stick with evidence and facts and research, and will dispute what I say with contradictory studies etc. They don't turn to character assassination and censorship to get their points across, and for that they deserve respect. They can have other discussions in other threads without bringing in the character attacks, and behave like reasonable people in a friendly manner. You don't seem to grasp that same concept.

Take, for example, this - you're not not only attacking me, you're insulting my entire nation!!

What's up with that??

You say Zendell and I cause you a great deal of angst - what do you think you're doing to us when you bring up conversations totally irrelevent to the thread from elsewhere and try to censor and degrade us on various boards at various times?!


Just think about what I'm saying here.

If someone tried to eradicate black culture, there would be an outcry of RACISM! Just like they can't help being born black, we can't help being born autistic.

Sorry for all the symbolic metaphors, i know that most Aspies hate that stuff. (I do too but still use them!)

But sometimes it's the best way to get your views across
Thank you.

And equally capable of causing confusion, Morning. No offence - i use metaphors as well, although I usually identify it as such as well.

I completely disagree with that. "Ridiculous suggestion" is chosen to ridicule the comment, not the person.



If this is happening I need details. I can't react if I don't know these things and I'm not told.



What is there to be afraid of? I'm sorry, but again the lack of detail is holding back my understanding of this claim. I don't p**** foot because little is acheived by doing that. I go straight into it. That's me. If I'm frightening people I need to know. I don't like these things being hidden from me, and I don't like it being brought to my attention through useless generalisations.

Please PM me with the full details. I'll respond to Le Kiwi's post in PM also.

Pardon me for getting so personal, but that's your problem, you react, you don't respond. For example, after clear and explicit warnings you continue to argue with a moderator. The behaviors I object to have been clearly spelled out for you. You persist with an attitude of "I'm right and they're wrong so it's okay." That attitude is not consistent with this community's values. If you cannot bring your behavior in line with this community's behavior you will not be allowed to be a member of this community.

Incidently, you have accused others of trolling behavior. The moderation team has informally developed a troll profile. You fit the profile better than those you disagree with. One of the games trolls play is "how far can I push this before I get banned?" This is not a point for debate, this is me telling you how it is. Consider taking your own advice and "just stay out of it." Consider the possibility that you're the one that's wrong here, and censor yourself as you would have others be censored.

Because you are with holding information that I need.



No they are not. I need more detail. I need SPECIFICS, not generalisations.



I do not persist with such an attitude. That is your translation, and it is misrepresentative of my position - and further it exonerates other wrong doers such as Zendell and Le Kiwi.



Then provide better guidance, please.



And I'm telling you, you are the one pushing all the buttons that create the scenario of trolling - because I want to fit in, and you won't let me by refusing the information I need. You are creating a great deal of confusion for me and that is not helping either of us.



Also consider the possibility that I am not the only guilty one in this entire situation. But I won't know that for certain until you stop attacking me - and HELP me! And in PM, if you wouldn't mind. Airing this in the public forums is not helping either.

It's started in a public forum so it only follows...

I've just PMed you back.

so awesome a post

You better believe it should be a hate crime.

Here is a link to someone who is guilty of hate crimes, he calls himself John Best and he is probably the worst hate criminal there ever was against the disability of Autism, unless there is someone worse (if there is someone way worse please tell me so) http://hatingautism.blogspot.com/

Check the link and see how disgusting he really is with his viewpoints.

morning_after, well trying to get rid of people with disablities or other quantifiable symptoms is nothing more than out and out eugenics...



ProfessorX

Well, legally saying "We should get rid of autistics" is no different than saying "We should get rid of Jews" or "we should get rid of gay people". And legally, you are allowed to say those (at least in the USA). This is because they do not create "a clear and present danger". I am not condoning any of these behaviors, merely I am saying they are protected under freedom of speech. HOWEVER, actually eradictating autism would be comparable to going out and "eradicating" Jews or gay people, or any other group. And that is a hate crime.

You stole the words right out of my mouth. We have just as much right to exist and act the way we want as any other minority group.

It's a hate crime that has a name. Genocide.