Why don't people just commit mass suicide if life is so bad?

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MuddRM
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29 Apr 2022, 1:11 am

Pepe wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
I think the cultures that survive to this day are all cultures with believing that "the future/afterlife will be better"or binding people to each other with emotions to prevent too many individuals from committing suicide.
Equality has never been achieved, so the lower classes need to be given beliefs to live for being exploited. Civilizations that don't do that won't be seen by us today.


In the Catholic church, it was a mortal sin to commit suicide to prevent people from doing it.
Emotional blackmail. 8)


It’s not just the one holy Catholic Church that consider it a mortal sin. In the more fundamentalist churches, you are automatically condemned to hell for committing such an act, just like you’re condemned to hell for human euthanasia. (This I remember growing up in a congregation that espoused the worst tenets of both Five point Calvinist and Arminian theology.)



Pepe
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29 Apr 2022, 1:22 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Pepe wrote:
kitesandtrainsandcats wrote:
QFT wrote:
I think suicidal people must be really brave to be honest.


Most of the ones I have known have been rather more desperate than brave; they could see no other way to end immense pain, be it psychological pain, physical pain, or both.

A couple selected samples:

In early 1980s my Dad became suicidal because of both as his health mysteriously collapsed and ended his USN career.
Fortunately he got through that time. Turns 82 this year.

However, it struck me that George in model train club suicided more out of pride than anything else; he flat out stated that he was going out on his terms before his body degenerated enough that he had to have someone take care of him.
We never have gotten his wife/widow's input on the matter.


Sounds like a plan.
Kudos. :thumright:

I don't know what kind of madness is causing so many people not to.


Irrational Emotionalism, most of the time.



AprilR
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30 Apr 2022, 9:50 am

I think i have heard of group suicides happening in Japan but idk if there is in other countries.



QuantumChemist
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30 Apr 2022, 11:46 pm

For many, the mystery of what happens at death is enough from them to stay alive. I gave up on fearing my own death many years ago. My lifetime is naturally shorter than most due to genetics (heart/lung issues). It is something I learned to accept when my father passed on nearly two decades ago from COPD.

Do I have bad days where I wish my life was much shorter? Yes, they do happen. Way more than I like sometimes. But, times change things if you stay alive. I survive to absorb knowledge. I cannot do that if I am dead. Taking my own life would be counter productive to my goal. If anything, I would rather seek to not have ever existed on those days. I spent my bullied youth trying to find that particular path. It just cannot be done.

By all accounts, I have already held death’s hand many times in my youth. Oh, I had fun. While I still play with toxic things when needed, I have learned how to with safety built in. Death will happen when it is my time to go. I have no need to directly shorten that time any longer than I already have.



cyberdad
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30 Apr 2022, 11:51 pm

MuddRM wrote:
It’s not just the one holy Catholic Church that consider it a mortal sin. In the more fundamentalist churches, you are automatically condemned to hell for committing such an act, just like you’re condemned to hell for human euthanasia.


Yeah because the "holy" inquisitors will astral travel to other side and tell St Peter not to let you through heaven's gate :roll:

these jokers don't even read the scriptures they pretend to follow.

Matthew 7 :: NIV. "Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.



SkinnedWolf
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01 May 2022, 1:01 am

cyberdad wrote:
MuddRM wrote:
It’s not just the one holy Catholic Church that consider it a mortal sin. In the more fundamentalist churches, you are automatically condemned to hell for committing such an act, just like you’re condemned to hell for human euthanasia.

Yeah because the "holy" inquisitors will astral travel to other side and tell St Peter not to let you through heaven's gate :roll:

I heard that the nobles and the richs of that time had the "right to suicide". :lol: Although not expressly stated.


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Sweetleaf
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01 May 2022, 1:14 am

Things are bad...all kinds of horrible s**t happening. Doesn't mean I want to die...f*ck I grew up as a depressed child and tried to kill myself when I was 15 its only more in my adulthood I have gotten to enjoy life more and I don't want it to end. I like being alive and want to be....even if it sucks sometimes, it better being alive than dead. But probably most people did not attempt suicide when they were 15, looking back now no even sure why...I guess I just really did feel that worthless and like I was more of a problem than a person.


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cyberdad
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01 May 2022, 1:38 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
MuddRM wrote:
It’s not just the one holy Catholic Church that consider it a mortal sin. In the more fundamentalist churches, you are automatically condemned to hell for committing such an act, just like you’re condemned to hell for human euthanasia.

Yeah because the "holy" inquisitors will astral travel to other side and tell St Peter not to let you through heaven's gate :roll:

I heard that the nobles and the richs of that time had the "right to suicide". :lol: Although not expressly stated.


Ah yes the olden days. In Anglo-Saxon times the chief or Jarl (modern English Earl) would be expected to take his own life in times of calamity or failure to live up to the expectations of the village.



SkinnedWolf
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01 May 2022, 2:13 am

cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
MuddRM wrote:
It’s not just the one holy Catholic Church that consider it a mortal sin. In the more fundamentalist churches, you are automatically condemned to hell for committing such an act, just like you’re condemned to hell for human euthanasia.

Yeah because the "holy" inquisitors will astral travel to other side and tell St Peter not to let you through heaven's gate :roll:

I heard that the nobles and the richs of that time had the "right to suicide". :lol: Although not expressly stated.


Ah yes the olden days. In Anglo-Saxon times the chief or Jarl (modern English Earl) would be expected to take his own life in times of calamity or failure to live up to the expectations of the village.

The version I've heard is that:
Families with enough power/money can bribe investigators to turn "suicide" into "death from illness" so that the deceased can be buried in a cemetery rather than an intersection. (Nor will the soul be deprived of the right to go to heaven)
And some languages didn't even have the word "suicide" at the time. The term they use is "someone murdered someone". So much so that they felt so embarrassed when translating "Emperor Chongzhen committed suicide". :lol:


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Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


cyberdad
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01 May 2022, 3:05 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
Families with enough power/money can bribe investigators to turn "suicide" into "death from illness" so that the deceased can be buried in a cemetery rather than an intersection. (Nor will the soul be deprived of the right to go to heaven)
And some languages didn't even have the word "suicide" at the time. The term they use is "someone murdered someone". So much so that they felt so embarrassed when translating "Emperor Chongzhen committed suicide". :lol:


Ah yes, that makes sense in the minds of the chieftan/earl/king.



SkinnedWolf
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01 May 2022, 3:42 am

cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
Families with enough power/money can bribe investigators to turn "suicide" into "death from illness" so that the deceased can be buried in a cemetery rather than an intersection. (Nor will the soul be deprived of the right to go to heaven)
And some languages didn't even have the word "suicide" at the time. The term they use is "someone murdered someone". So much so that they felt so embarrassed when translating "Emperor Chongzhen committed suicide". :lol:


Ah yes, that makes sense in the minds of the chieftan/earl/king.

The Chinese version is:
In ancient times (and in the modern subconscious): suicide for ideals was seen as an honor worthy of admiration and commemoration. This includes unfulfilled political ambitions/love. Or, in the case of widows, dying "heartbroken" for her deceased husband.
But in modern times, a teenagers/youngs committing suicide while having a parent would be seen as psychologically vulnerable or unconcerned about the parent. :roll:

I heard the Hindu/Buddhist saying is:
You have to suffer enough in this life before you can have a more noble birth in your next life.


Amazingly, these ideas all began to "modernize" when population was no longer an asset but more likely a burden.

Humans are accustomed to "demonizing alternatives"/"emotionally kidnapping"/"promising false hope" to align others with the mainstream.
And even this rule makes way for some people.


What a sinister and ugly world. I plan to get out of here. :evil: :heart: :wink:


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With the help of translation software.

Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


Last edited by SkinnedWolf on 01 May 2022, 4:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

cyberdad
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01 May 2022, 4:01 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
Families with enough power/money can bribe investigators to turn "suicide" into "death from illness" so that the deceased can be buried in a cemetery rather than an intersection. (Nor will the soul be deprived of the right to go to heaven)
And some languages didn't even have the word "suicide" at the time. The term they use is "someone murdered someone". So much so that they felt so embarrassed when translating "Emperor Chongzhen committed suicide". :lol:


Ah yes, that makes sense in the minds of the chieftan/earl/king.

The Chinese version is:
In ancient times (and in the modern subconscious): suicide for ideals was seen as an honor worthy of admiration and commemoration. This includes unfulfilled political ambitions/love. Or, in the case of widows, dying "heartbroken" for her deceased husband.
But in modern times, a teenagers/youngs committing suicide while having a parent would be seen as psychologically vulnerable or unconcerned about the parent. :roll:

I heard the Hindu/Buddhist saying is:
You have to suffer enough in this life before you can have a more noble birth in your next life.


What a sinister and ugly world. I plan to get out of here. :evil: :heart: :wink:


Interesting. I know the Japanese honoured samurai who committed suicide (they called it Seppuku), Latter day Japanese pilots in WWII voluntarily committed suicide shouting "Banzai"



SkinnedWolf
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01 May 2022, 4:06 am

cyberdad wrote:
Interesting. I know the Japanese honoured samurai who committed suicide (they called it Seppuku), Latter day Japanese pilots in WWII voluntarily committed suicide shouting "Banzai"

Benefit. Depends if you are more useful in life or more useful in death.
A culture in which the population exceeds the carrying capacity of the land will encourage this. And, the tendency to abstinence. This rule is basically applicable to the demographic changes in Chinese history.
And Japan, unfortunately, suffered from chronic scarcity of natural resources per capita.


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With the help of translation software.

Cover your eyes, if you like. It will serve no purpose.

You might expect to be able to crush them in your hand, into wolf-bone fragments.
Dance with me, funeralxempire. Into night's circle we fly, until the fire enjoys us.


Pepe
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01 May 2022, 5:50 am

SkinnedWolf wrote:
cyberdad wrote:
SkinnedWolf wrote:
Families with enough power/money can bribe investigators to turn "suicide" into "death from illness" so that the deceased can be buried in a cemetery rather than an intersection. (Nor will the soul be deprived of the right to go to heaven)
And some languages didn't even have the word "suicide" at the time. The term they use is "someone murdered someone". So much so that they felt so embarrassed when translating "Emperor Chongzhen committed suicide". :lol:


Ah yes, that makes sense in the minds of the chieftan/earl/king.

The Chinese version is:
In ancient times (and in the modern subconscious): suicide for ideals was seen as an honor worthy of admiration and commemoration. This includes unfulfilled political ambitions/love. Or, in the case of widows, dying "heartbroken" for her deceased husband.
But in modern times, a teenagers/youngs committing suicide while having a parent would be seen as psychologically vulnerable or unconcerned about the parent. :roll:

I heard the Hindu/Buddhist saying is:
You have to suffer enough in this life before you can have a more noble birth in your next life.


Amazingly, these ideas all began to "modernize" when population was no longer an asset but more likely a burden.

Humans are accustomed to "demonizing alternatives"/"emotionally kidnapping"/"promising false hope" to align others with the mainstream.
And even this rule makes way for some people.


What a sinister and ugly world. I plan to get out of here. :evil: :heart: :wink:


Don't leave me behind.
Take me with you. 8)