Israeli nationalists chant ‘death to Arabs’ in Jerusalem

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Isn't that a mirror of antisemitism from across the other side? I know the history of the region. Many Palestinians, in a bid to throw out the British and Jews in Palestine supported Hitler in the 1930s (long before Zionism). when the movement to form the state of Israel began, the Palestinians who followed the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem subscribed to antisemitic beliefs. My point is the distrust from both sides pre-dates the formation of Israel by decades. Antisemitism then morphed into Islamicist Jihad which for many Palestinians is easily conflated with seeking justice.

You make it sound like its a war involving Palestinians who are all political majors from Harvard. the bulk of the population have always sought to return of their lands (heck If I was Palestinian I would too) from the River Jordan to the Sea. It's why Israel was invaded 4 times. they subscribe to a more prosaic view, that one day they will win. Israelis are always going to be on edge, especially now that extremism has taken firm root in Palestine. But the seeds for this radicalism were planted a long time ago. Sure Israel have made things worse, but this conflict was always inevitable.

You keep on treating this like a conflict, a war between two equal entities when it never has been such in the least. This is a genocide. Let’s call things by their right names.

Is there antisemitism going on in Palestine? That looks like yet another attempt at whataboutery in this thread because you find the main topic distasteful. I will say that given the atrocities Israel has committed against them over the years, including stealing their land and ethnic cleansing, much of the antisemitism that is there is likely reactionary.

Again I do not conflate a government with people. the current Netanyahu government does need to be punished for war crimes and settlers who religious zealots taking advantage to expand need to return stolen land to Palestinians. the latter is always difficult to achieve, Yitzak Rabin tried and was murdered by a Jewish extremist.

this is a complex situation and requires more nuance than just stopping US military support. Israel knows if they withdraw and another Oct 7 happens, the same pro-Palestinian groups will just say "this is the resistance". what then? despite getting financial aid, Israel has largely been on their own and have had to fight their own battles. A lasting solution needs to meet the safety needs of Israeli civilians, otherwise they will keep electing right wing governments.

You'd be antisemitic too if you were in their shoes.

Their experience regarding Jews is largely formed by the settlers and military occupation that are engaging in genocide against them. It'll be a lot easier for a more nuanced and sympathetic perspective to emerge after the crisis ends, rather than while it continues to be inflicted upon them.

People aren't at their most rational while they're being exterminated.

You can't use Palestinians are antisemitic as a valid excuse for allowing them to have their homeland stolen and for allowing their extermination. Palestinians during WW2 being hostile to the Zionist project seem to have understood the problem well, given how the Zionist project has unfolded since WW2. They were entitled to take steps to minimize the risk posed by the Zionist project back then too. Even if means collaborating with terrible people. If Finland gets a pass why wouldn't the Palestinians?

If they had of succeeded at nipping the problem in the bud, this tragedy wouldn't be occurring right now.

No it's not "what-aboutery", its relevant to the thread topic. Jewish people spouting "kill the Arab" are also "reacting". You are looking at this in a vacuum. there are religious extremists on both sides. And no Israel was always militarily and in terms of manpower inferior to the Arab alliance (armed by the Soviets and China) who launched armed invasions of Israel in 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973. this doesn't include Fedayeen insurgents (Not unlike the Afghan Mujahadeen) made up of terror cells made up of Arab guerrillas infiltrated from Syria, Egypt, and Jordan into Israel to carry out attacks against Israeli civilians and soldiers continuously between 1950-1960 and the Palestinian interfada from 1987-2005.

Yes Israel is now much more well armed now and yes they have crossed a line and must be stopped from killing even one Palestinian civilian. Beyond sanctions what do you suggest?

And what do you suggest the UN and USA do beyond economic sanctions? are you suggesting arming HAMAS?

I'm not sure what that response has to do with my counter-point to your trying to tie the Palestinians cause to that of the Nazis. The Palestinians had a pretty legitimate Jewish plot to worry about and defend themselves against, the Nazis did not, but were at least sympathetic to a people who were anti-British and receptive to their antisemitism.

I think it's pretty common for colonized people to be less than thrilled about settlers moving in and taking over, while creating the infrastructure to support more settlers. The Palestinians making attempts to interfere with that process isn't really the slam dunk against them you'd like to present it as.

It's not the Palestinians fault that the Holocaust occurred or that much of the world refused to accept Jewish refugees. Unlike much of the world, they had a pretty legitimate reason to want to limit Jewish immigration, those immigrants were openly plotting to steal their f*****g homeland.

I am in agreement, isn't Israel already overpopulated? But the Law of Return can't be repealed now, plus Ethiopia's Falasha live in abject poverty and deserve the right to Aliyah.

It certainly can be going forward, especially when the Palestinians have the right to return and should have priority.

I don't even know how to respond to this ignorance. There will be no long term peace in the Middle East until the war criminals running Israel are prosecuted and the entire state is dismantled. This literally could not be done with such brazenness if the Israeli people didn't approve of it.

Israel hasn't had any sort of real threat in decades. It's mostly them intentionally causing problems and then using the backlash as an excuse to engage in crimes against humanity as they steal and plunder more Palestinian resources. And, they're not going to stop anytime soon. This isn't like the US during the second Iraq war where a massive portion of the population disagreed with what was going on.

It can be repealed, there's just no pressure to do that since they're still being able to steal land from the rightful owners. The moment that somebody puts a stop to the Israeli terrorists, you'll start to see pressure to end that law.

No, Zionism is quite a bit OLDER than the 1930's. Quite a few Jews had already been moving in, with intent to colonize and displace the indigenous Palestinians, ever since the 1880's or so. Already, long before the 1930's, Zionist Jews had been doing things like buying large tracts of land from absentee landlords and evicting large numbers of Palestinians from said land.

Naturally, this was quite alarming to the Palestinians.

So Palestinian leaders allied with Hitler on the basis of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."

Were it not for this, Palestinians otherwise would have had every reason to fear Hitler, who proudly called himself an "Anti-Semite." Back then, Arabs too were called "Semites," not just Jews.


The state of Israel was not actually founded until 1948, but the MOVEMENT to found it began much earlier, and so did the displacement of Palestinian Arabs.

Last edited by Mona Pereth on 11 Jun 2025, 4:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

that's your solution? How do you propose dismantling the state of Israel? the chances of that happening are zero. Hence asking each party to work things out in an ethical and moral manner.

My point is zionism never reached critical mass till after wwII and when there were receptive jews willing to leave europe after the holocaust. the zionist message was therefore a beacon of hope.

You are also falling into the same trap assuming average Palestinians were aware of political movements across the globe, most were illiterate and easily swayed by their leaders like the Grand Mufti (who lived in Nazi Germany). their needs were prosaic, land for grazing and homes. A lot of them had no idea that the SS (yes the SS) between 1933-1940 were actively supporting the zionist movement in Israel in order to encourage Jews from europe to emigrate. At that time european Jews had no desire live in Israel and in any case Britain made it hard for them in order to maintain law and order in Palestine. the Nazis trade with Palestine was so important that Nazi Germany was Palestine's biggest trading partner which also suited the Nazis who were facing trade embargos.
https://www.museumoftolerance.com/educa ... er-17.html

the Grand Mufti was aware of this arrangement but hid it from his people as he was a corrupt self serving politician enjoying the high life in Berlin. All of this changed in the 1940 with the adoption of the final solution and the ideological shift in Nazi Germany against the formation of the Jewish state. the Palestinian leadership betrayed their people.

One of the ironies of history is that Israel would never have formed if wesetern powers simply hadn't been racist and allowed Jews to emigrate to the US or any other country.

We more or less did that with Germany after WWII where basically everybody involved in running the government was investigated with anybody with any real connection to the war crimes being tried, many of whom were executed and with the US and Soviets occupying the country in the aftermath just to make sure that there wasn't a 4th Reich to follow.

You're under the assumption that there's some sizable population within Israel that hasn't completely bought into the reasonableness of these crimes against humanity and that just ending the war crimes now would be enough to stop it from happening again. But, so much of Israel is built on stolen land and much of the economy depends on pillaged resources that rightfully belong to the various people that owned the land.

At a certain point, the crimes become so overt and without shame that there isn't really anything you can do other than dismantle the government entirely to ensure that none of the bad actors get back into power. It's gotten to the point where the Israelis have literally been corrupting the US' government to the point where we can find money to pay for their defense even as we don't have universal healthcare and many parts of the country have tried to make it illegal to engage in BDS and people the feds are trying to deport people for criticizing Israel.

This isn't an embattled country that needs to be protected, it is being run by evil people that are deliberately murdering children and are currently purposefully starving the people and barring any actual aid from reaching there while murdering medics. In many cases, they themselves are publishing the videos of themselves committing crimes against humanity, blowing up entire neighborhoods and using Palestinians as human shields.

I do not believe there's much that I could say that would be worse than what we know has been happening. Only one of the two parties here can actually do anything to stop this, and that's the Israelis, they've been the ones refusing to abide by ceasefires or any effort to actually come to an agreement to stop the violence. They're even kidnapping people from international waters that are in the process of trying to deliver humanitarian aid directly to Gaza.

True, in the sense that (1) there were not yet enough Jews in Palestine to make the creation of a nation-state feasible and (2) most Jews, worldwide, were not yet Zionist.

However, by the 1930s, there were already enough Zionists in Palestine who were already behaving aggressively enough to cause major alarm to quite a few Palestinian Arabs.


No, I'm not assuming that the average Palestinian was aware of world events. But as you yourself say:


Those very "prosaic" needs were already being threatened by Zionist Jews who were buying up land and evicting indigenous Palestinians. When this sort of thing happens to enough people in enough places, word is likely to get around, even among illiterates.


Very interesting. Thanks for the link.


Agreed.