Well I guess Israel and Iran are at war now.

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The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Jun 2025, 1:43 pm

Barchan wrote:

Well, it's about time. The IDF are so good at murdering infants and fictitious "terrorists" in their cribs, so now we get to see how they fare against an actual military?

The Iranian army turned out to be a total joke, all what they rely on is the ballistic missiles.

Airforce? ZERO

Intelligence? ZERO

Counter-intelligence? ZERO

Readiness? ZERO

Anti-air defense? It is now ZERO

Allies? ZERO, the talks about Pakistan, China or Russia wanting to intervene are nothing but rumors circulating in fake news outlets.

They are on the verge of total collapse; their missile silos are dwindling, the skies of Iran are totally SAFE for their enemy now. Most key officiers and commanders got assassinated in day 1.

The gap of war competence between the two nations is unreal.

Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 17 Jun 2025, 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

The_Face_of_Boo
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17 Jun 2025, 1:50 pm

Barchan wrote:

I'm starting to have my doubts that the 10/7 attacks even happened, since the only source for Israel's claims is the Israeli government and state-controlled media

That's the silliest claim I have ever seen here.

MatchboxVagabond
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17 Jun 2025, 1:54 pm

Jakki wrote:

Agrees with the above post, but with the addition, that? do not quote me on this, because am based in a workd of the 20 th century in my own mind BUT , I do believe Tehran is a very civilized city . With school and colleges WOMEN could attend, face covers included most likely but Moslems are about there religion and Judiac peoples are about there own?
So often ,it actually at some point sounds like a religious War these days . Because , am pretty sure hamas is based in and about Moslem countries . How many countries around Israel are Moslem ? Its almost like the Crusaders have returned for a act II of what happened in medievel times ? . Civilized peeps normally try to live in Peace with their nextdoor neighbours .Or at least a hec of alot more respectful of their differences .And property generally.

My In-laws are Persian having immigrated from Iran and yes, prior to the revolution the country was quite modern and if you watch media from that time, you wouldn't necessarily know what was coming. I do think that the people probably would take a different view on what's going on now, but the US and Israel keep threatening their security.

It's probably too rosy to say that when their security is handled that things will change, but as long as Israel and the US are threatening their country, they will likely rally around their flag the same way that the US or so many other countries do. The current Ayatollah is getting older and will eventually die. Who or what replaces him will be impacted by things like this. Much of their behavior over the last 30 years has to do with the aftermath of the Iran-Iraq war and the Iranian Revolutionary Guard is incredibly effective at keeping things secret. Anybody in the US that claims to know with any certainty what they're doing is probably full of it.

MatchboxVagabond
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17 Jun 2025, 1:55 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Barchan wrote:

I'm starting to have my doubts that the 10/7 attacks even happened, since the only source for Israel's claims is the Israeli government and state-controlled media

That's the silliest claim I have ever seen here.

Yes, 10/7 clearly happened. The issue I personally have with most of the discourse is the assertion that some people make that it was unprovoked. It was just the opening salvo on the current round of escalation.

kokopelli
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17 Jun 2025, 1:58 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Barchan wrote:

I'm starting to have my doubts that the 10/7 attacks even happened, since the only source for Israel's claims is the Israeli government and state-controlled media

That's the silliest claim I have ever seen here.

After Hamas's "opening salvo" or rape, torture, and murder, nobody should be surprised at the response. And Hamas absolutely deserves that response.

MatchboxVagabond
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17 Jun 2025, 1:58 pm

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

Barchan wrote:

Well, it's about time. The IDF are so good at murdering infants and fictitious "terrorists" in their cribs, so now we get to see how they fare against an actual military?

The only hope that Israel has is that the US decides to get bogged down in another war in the Middle East. Iran has roughly 10x the population of Israel, and Israel is using a bunch of weapon systems that they get from the US. There' no way that the Israelis can topple the Iranian government in any meaningful way with so few citizens. If the US pulls the plug, the Israelis would fold pretty quickly. Not to mention that while I do agree that Israel has the upper hand in a lot of ways, the Iranians were able to hit a couple of important IDF buildings during one of their rocket attacks and the proportion of missiles that are getting through has been increasing.

It's hard to say if that's a reflection of the Israelis throttling back so they have more in reserve, the Iranians getting smarter about how they use their missiles, or something else entirely.

MatchboxVagabond
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17 Jun 2025, 2:00 pm

kokopelli wrote:

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:

After Hamas's "opening salvo" or rape, torture, and murder, nobody should be surprised at the response. And Hamas absolutely deserves that response.

What do you expect? The Israelis have been murdering Palestinians for decades. You make it sound like Hamas has access to proper military hardware to conduct things properly or that the Israelis don't also engage in campaigns of rape, torture and murder.

CherokeeDeathRose13
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17 Jun 2025, 2:01 pm

I just had a revolutionary thought.... maybe they're BOTH wrong? :chin:

kokopelli
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17 Jun 2025, 2:03 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

kokopelli wrote:

They have been going against each other for decades. Both sides are dirty.

The Oct 7 attack was a major and very despicable escalation. If one side escalates violence like that, then they are hypocrites to cry about the response.

kokopelli
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17 Jun 2025, 2:07 pm

MatchboxVagabond wrote:

I've yet to be convinced that the Israelis are trying to destroy Iran. They are certainly trying to destroy Iran's ability to attack them and that seems like an immensely good idea.

If Iran were to put their effort toward building their country and making it peaceful, then would Israel have attacked? Of course not. Israel attacked because of Iran's warmongering and their pursuit of nuclear weapons. They have every right to try to stop them on that.

I can't imagine that Israel has any expectation of taking or controlling Iran. That just won't happen.

MushroomPrincess
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17 Jun 2025, 2:08 pm

Cornflake wrote:

By the same token, actually supporting Hamas or cheering their actions is also not acceptable.

sorry not to be all "devil's advocate" about this, but like

if you've already accepted the premise that israel are probably exaggerating about the death tolls, as well as methodology, intent, and literally everything else about the hamas attack(s), and that they have a pattern of manufacturing fake atrocities for publicity and propaganda purposes

then why are we still naively taking for granted that hamas are unequivocally the baddies

?

like i know it's hard for us westerners to grok that israel have been lying about palestinian "aggression" for decades, but in light of recent news we have to willing to consider that literally everything you have ever been told about hamas, as an organization, is very likely an embellished half-truth if not an outright lie

and also like, i totally get how, for westerners who pride ourselves on being oh-so clever and independent and "free", it's embarrassing for us as a culture to admit that we were easily lied to, and it's double-embarrassing for westerners with autism, who as a group have a reputation of being easily lied to

i dunno it just feels kinda weird to double down on hamas being the baddies when we've been wrong every time

edit: just to be clear i'm not saying hamas aren't the baddies, i'm just admitting that we're all working with the same incomplete information as everyone else, i mean who knows
fog of war is hell isn't it

funeralxempire
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17 Jun 2025, 3:42 pm

CherokeeDeathRose13 wrote:

I just had a revolutionary thought.... maybe they're BOTH wrong? :chin:

There's certainly no good guys.

There's bad guys committing genocide, fighting against bad guys who are resisting genocide, supported by other bad guys who only care about them as a proxy to undermine the guys committing genocide.

That said, recognizing Iran has the right to self-defence is just conceding to reality and it doesn't require any sympathy to recognize reality.

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funeralxempire
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17 Jun 2025, 4:10 pm

CherokeeDeathRose13
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17 Jun 2025, 4:36 pm

funeralxempire wrote:

CherokeeDeathRose13 wrote:

I just had a revolutionary thought.... maybe they're BOTH wrong? :chin:

Honestly I feel like the longer this goes on, the harder it is for me to keep caring...

I mean I'm starting to see that Israel is the one engaging in genocide against the Palestenians (with Trump's blessing of course). While I agree that genocide is wrong, I also can't forget the fact that Jewish people were once targeted by one of the most horrific genocides in human history and at that time nobody stood up for them because Jew-hatred was ingrained everywhere you looked.

And don't even get me started on China's ongoing genocide against muslims within their own borders, something that has been quickly swept under the rug.

I'm just starting to believe that every time the Western world intervenes in those kinds of problems we somehow make those problems much worse. Maybe we should just accept that we can't fix countries that never truly wanted our help to begin with?

I might just be thinking nonsense, but I can't help but feel that our "help" is doing more harm than good.

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17 Jun 2025, 5:28 pm

Meanwhile...

At least 30 US Air Force jets have been deployed to Europe amid escalating fears Donald Trump will enter the Israel-Iran conflict.

The aerial refuelling aircrafts, mostly KC-46A Pegasus and KC-135 Stratotankers, departing US airfields across and heading across the Atlantic towards Europe, according to Flightradar24.

Dozens of USAF KC-135 Stratotanker refuelers and KC-46 Pegagus tankers swooped into bases in Prestwick, Scotland, Ramstein, Germany, Moron in Spain and Chania in Crete, The Sun reports.

At least four KC-135 Stratotankers landed at Glasgow Prestwick Airport on Monday.

Mr Trump has already warned the “full strength and might” of the military would be used if the US is attacked.Mr Trump has already warned the “full strength and might” of the military would be used if the US is attacked.

In a new series of social media posts, he has called for Iran’s “unconditional surrender”.
Mr Trump also wrote that the US knows where Iran’s supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei apparently threatening to kill him.

“We are not going to take him out (kill!), at least not for now,” he said, ominously.

US bombers and refuelling planes have been positioning closer towards the Middle East.

But it’s unsure if this is a sign the US could directly enter the war or if it’s signalling to get Iran to negotiate.

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-ea ... b3adf6ff89

CherokeeDeathRose13
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17 Jun 2025, 8:46 pm

I think Trump is going to exploit this crisis to try and convince the public that he's needed in power.

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